Military coup in Myanmar

[crazy canuck]

Perhaps, but slavery existed long before Christianity and in societies with no Christian presence.

True, but we were talking about white supremacy, the idea that being White makes you so superior that others can/should be enslaved for their benefit.  That is deeply rooted in Christianity.  And I'm also aware that the opposite is also true: Middle aged Christianity was used to fight against the idea of slavery, especially of owning christian slaves.  Same as Islam, really.

My point is that both religions are equally "evil", as "evil" as the men practicing it can be.

Christianity was the religion of slaves at the beginning.  It is the North American evangelical version of Christianity that has become fused with white nationalism.

There are lots of non-white evangelicals.

Yes.  But very few of them are white nationalists.  If you read to the end of my second sentence, you will see the problem.

[Jacob]

Extremist islam is not the reason for the problem, it is a symptom.

Yeah I concur with this, though of course with any complex problems symptoms can act as drivers as well.

[Valmy]

Yes.  But very few of them are white nationalists.  If you read to the end of my second sentence, you will see the problem.

True but they certainly have lots of reactionary potential if properly mobilized.

[Jacob]

Yes.  But very few of them are white nationalists.  If you read to the end of my second sentence, you will see the problem.

True but they certainly have lots of reactionary potential if properly mobilized.

Yeah, the GOP could potentially clean house if they found a way to expand to non-white reactionaries and conservatives without alienating the bigot wing of their base.

[Eddie Teach]

Perhaps, but slavery existed long before Christianity and in societies with no Christian presence.

True, but we were talking about white supremacy, the idea that being White makes you so superior that others can/should be enslaved for their benefit.  That is deeply rooted in Christianity.  And I'm also aware that the opposite is also true: Middle aged Christianity was used to fight against the idea of slavery, especially of owning christian slaves.  Same as Islam, really.

My point is that both religions are equally "evil", as "evil" as the men practicing it can be.

Christianity was the religion of slaves at the beginning.  It is the North American evangelical version of Christianity that has become fused with white nationalism.

There are lots of non-white evangelicals.

Yes.  But very few of them are white nationalists.  If you read to the end of my second sentence, you will see the problem.

Yeah, that's the claim I was taking issue with. Both evangelical Christianity and white nationalism are perfectly capable of thriving without the other.

[Jacob]

Yeah, that's the claim I was taking issue with. Both evangelical Christianity and white nationalism are perfectly capable of thriving without the other.

For sure, and they have for long periods of time. However it seems, in the US at least, that the two threads are converging. Or perhaps more precisely, that a specific mixture of white nationalism and evangelical Christianity has recently shown itself to be quite potent.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, that's the claim I was taking issue with. Both evangelical Christianity and white nationalism are perfectly capable of thriving without the other.

Sure, but the reality is they are closely related for whites in America.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, that's the claim I was taking issue with. Both evangelical Christianity and white nationalism are perfectly capable of thriving without the other.

For sure, and they have for long periods of time. However it seems, in the US at least, that the two threads are converging. Or perhaps more precisely, that a specific mixture of white nationalism and evangelical Christianity has recently shown itself to be quite potent.

Yeah - I'm not even sure it's necessarily to do with evangelism though. The most white nationalist churches in the recent past were definitely the Dutch churches in South Africa which were explicitly racist.

[Jacob]

Yeah - I'm not even sure it's necessarily to do with evangelism though. The most white nationalist churches in the recent past were definitely the Dutch churches in South Africa which were explicitly racist.

That depends on what you mean by "to do with evangelism", I reckon.

If you by evangelism you mean "focus on preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ, personal conversion experiences, Scripture as the sole basis for faith, and active evangelism" then I suppose not. On the other hand, evangelical Christianity in the US has broadly speaking aligned itself politically with a specific agenda and if that's what someone means when they say "evangelism" then it is plenty related.

[Razgovory]

Er, what specific agenda are you talking about?

[Barrister]

Er, what specific agenda are you talking about?

I assume he means Trump.

[Valmy]

Trump was, apparently, an agent of God's divine providence. What was God thinking? 

[Jacob]

Er, what specific agenda are you talking about?

The GOP agenda.

I'm saying (white) Evangelical Christianity in the US is closely aligned with the GOP agenda and vice versa.

Sheilbh is saying that that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Evangelism, which is true if you consider Evangelism as a historical or theological phenomenon. But it is true if you consider American white Evangelical Christianity as cultural and demographic phenomenon.

[Sheilbh]

Sheilbh is saying that that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Evangelism, which is true if you consider Evangelism as a historical or theological phenomenon. But it is true if you consider American white Evangelical Christianity as cultural and demographic phenomenon.

Yeah which is a fair point. What I mean is more that it's not something within the content of evangelical belief. Rather the secular cultural and demographic forces often shape the religion as often (if not more) than they are shaped by them and I think politics will sort of instrumentalise whatever faith is lying around - whether that's Evangelism, or Dutch Calvinist churches, or various brands of Islam, or whatever else.

And as with even very conservative Muslims there's value in distinguishing between believers and people who are using that as a political agenda.

[Josquius]

Definitely true. Let's not forget radical Muslims are effectively Muslim protestants. True Conservative Muslims from more traditional sects tend to be a lot more live and let live even when it comes to gay people and other big trigger points for the nutters.