From the "Black People Arrest Themselves" files

[garbon]

It was one of the examples a high ranked police officer gave me, when we talked about racism and discrimination at the police (when I was councilor in my home town). He and others agreed there was some racism at the police, but never very serious cases. Just like this Gates case. Overblown, mainly because the media need something to write and report about.

Well I'm a minority in America (about the same shade as Gates).

[Valmy]

Well I'm a minority in America (about the same shade as Gates).

Nobody worries about Indians.  They probably figure you are a software engineer out for a stroll.

[Barrister]

It was one of the examples a high ranked police officer gave me, when we talked about racism and discrimination at the police (when I was councilor in my home town). He and others agreed there was some racism at the police, but never very serious cases. Just like this Gates case. Overblown, mainly because the media need something to write and report about.

PS: is the police in your country allowed to ask for identification, without any immediate reason?

If driving, yes.  Otherwise no (or at least they can ask, but you aren't obliged to comply).

[Admiral Yi]

Define "tiny".

You could drive from the Charles River Bridge to the Slummerville line in, what, 10 minutes?

[Barrister]

BTW tiny < 100 people.

[CountDeMoney]

How so? 
I heard an officer unable to transmit additional information and unable to communicate to dispatch and other officers when requested repeatedly because he was dealing with a disorderly person,  who you could hear in the background whenever the sergeant keyed up his mic.  Kinda difficult to hold two conversations at once.

Because at the time he was transmitting "additional information" he no longer had any lawful basis for remaining in the house.  He had already established that no crime had been committed or was in the process of being committed and that he was in a private residence without permission.  The exigent circumstances that had permitted his entry vanished once he established the ID of the homeowner.  Nor was there any other basis for remaining in the house - the mere fact that Gates may have been insulting him is neither a chargable crime nor a basis to remain in a private house without invitation.   

At that point, he had only one move to make: depart from the house.  Instead he stuck around and called to send more cars.  Since there was no longer any investigation to conduct, that could only have been to do what he did - escalate the situation and precipitate an improper arrest without cause.

There was no longer any investigation to conduct? Why, because you said so?  Not good enough, lawtalker.

[CountDeMoney]

It's no different that the elitist classism Minsky exhibits.

I am just pointing to the reality of life.  If Justice Breyer yells at a cop who enters his Cambridge home, he doesn't get arrested.  There are double standards, whether or not I approve him.  For some reason Gates didn't get the benefit of that double standard.  Maybe it was because this particular cop was very scrupulous, or maybe it was for some other reason.  I am not inclined to believe the former, because the officer's actions as I have already described were not otherwise scrupulous.

Vice Presidents get to shoot people in the face while drunk, has nothing to do with the color of their skin.

But Gates exercised his right to get himself arrested, which 95% of all arrests do--they get themselves locked up by their actions, not by the officers'.  No double standard there.

I have taken the position of the police before on these boards -- for example in the incident where they shot the guy in the car under the erroneous impression he was armed.  I recognize that it is a high stress profession and that hard decisions sometimes have to made in an instant.  But some 57 year limping professor carping about how "its because I'm black isn't it" and "you don't know who you are dealing with" should not create any issues for an experienced officer.  There was a right way for the officer to handle this and a wrong way.  This officer in this particular place and this particular time let his emotions rule his reason and picked the wrong way.

Still doesn't make you any less of a cophating New York heeb lawyer, Dershowitz.

[Caliga]

You could drive from the Charles River Bridge to the Slummerville line in, what, 10 minutes?

Oh, you're talking physical size, then?

In that case it is rather smallish, but it's got a weird oblong shape and your path is taking one across the narrow side of the city.

[The Minsky Moment]

There was no longer any investigation to conduct?

for the reasons stated.  and if there was an investigation still to conduct, he didn't conduct it.  He just lured Gates outside and clapped cuffs on him.

Dershowitz

My hero. 

Bet you Officer Crowley would have recognized him, even if he is just a prof in a gigantic megalopolis that is Cambridge, MA.

[CountDeMoney]

There was no longer any investigation to conduct?

for the reasons stated.  and if there was an investigation still to conduct, he didn't conduct it.  He just lured Gates outside and clapped cuffs on him.

It was still being conducted;  all calls are active until the responding officer codes it with dispatch. As the call for service was still active, the investigation was still active as well.

Dershowitz

My hero. 

Bet you Officer Crowley would have recognized him, even if he is just a prof in a gigantic megalopolis that is Cambridge, MA.

Lawyers with Jewfros all look alike.

[grumbler]

There is nothing in the transcribed audio dispatch that indicates anything about a driver's license or when the officer saw it.   Gates claims that he did show the driver's license at the same time he gave his Harvard ID.  The police report and audio transcripts are entirely silent on this issue.  Crowley has not to my knowledge contended that Gates did not provide the license and his incident report doesn't say either way.

But Crowley stated in interviews that Gates first just gave him the Harvard ID.  That is perfectly consistent with his report that Gates appeared to be from Harvard, and his rquest for a Harvard policeman to be dispatched.  Why would he do this if he intended to arrest Gates?

There are three possibilities here:
1) Gates is telling the truth and gave both IDs.  The incident report omitted this fact by accident.

2) Gates is telling the truth and gave IDs.  The incident report omitted this fact because Officer Crowley saw the Harvard ID first and that was sufficient confirmation that Gates was who he claimed to be and never looked at the license.

3)  Gates is not telling the truth and the officer only saw that Harvard ID, but concluded that it was sufficient confirmation. (not surprising b/c even if Crowley hadn't confirmed the name of the known resident, the house is university housing).

There is the possibility that Gates gave only the Harvard ID and epected it to be enough, but that the policeman was suspicious that gates gave only the Harvard ID.  Again, consistent with his desire to have a harvard policeman respond, to confirm Gates's residence there.

It could be any of those three, but whichever one applies, there is no excuse to seek to "keep the cars coming."

Since you chose to not include the facts that (1) Gates may not have demonstrated that he was the legal resident and (2) that Gates refused to say what had happened to the second man reported to be part of the break in (according to Crowley) there is no excuse not to note that a backup was needed.  An unknown additional suspect is bad juju for one cop.  Only an idiot would not ask for the backup to keep coming under the circumstances Crowley relates.  You assume he did so for reasons known only to yourself, and that discrepancies between the transcript of Corwley's radio calls and the facts on the ground are due to some.. what, malice on Crowley's part?... something.  Crowley's story is consistent with the transcript, and yours is not. 

Also - metioning the Harvard police was simply your error on the misunderstanding that the "cars" he asked to come were university police.  it is clear from the audio dispatch that was not the case.

He specifically asked for Harvard police in the transcript I read.  Are you disputing this?

I assume the CPD policy complies with Massachusetts law and Mass constitutional standards for police conduct.  They may be wrong, but it is the basis for my leap.

I assume that the CPD policy complies with Massachusetts law and Mass constitutional standards for police conduct.  They may be wrong, but it is the basis for my conclusion that Crowley acted properly.

[grumbler]

for the reasons stated.  and if there was an investigation still to conduct, he didn't conduct it.  He just lured Gates outside and clapped cuffs on him.

  "[J]ust lured Gates outside and clapped cuffs on him."  Classic revisionism in action.  I suppose all of the other cps involved (black and white) supported the story of the warnings prior to arrest because they were sellouts to "the man?"

[Admiral Yi]

Oh, you're talking physical size, then?

In that case it is rather smallish, but it's got a weird oblong shape and your path is taking one across the narrow side of the city.

Of course I'm talking physical size.  I buy grabon's population number, not much point in debating if 100K is tiny or not (no offense to Beeb).

And I think my path takes me from the southeastern corner to a midpoint north.

[garbon]

Of course I'm talking physical size.

True...but how is that relevant.  That does help on my analogy side though. That's why Cambridge really just feels like a neighborhood of Boston.

[Admiral Yi]

True...but how is that relevant.  That does help on my analogy side though. That's why Cambridge really just feels like a neighborhood of Boston.

Boston itself is tiny.  It's a fucking postage stamp.