From the "Black People Arrest Themselves" files

[The Minsky Moment]

Well, like JR said, this isn't just any arrest. This man is an "eminent" and important person who deserves special consideration, which he was not adequately given.

Fixed.  Now who is throwing around race?

[Berkut]

Well, like JR said, this isn't just any arrest. This man is an "eminent" and important person who deserves special consideration, which he was not adequately given.

Fixed.  Now who is throwing around race?

Gates - he is the only person who brought it up at all.

[The Minsky Moment]

Right, because as long as you don't say the word, it doesn't exist.

[Berkut]

Right, because as long as you don't say the word, it doesn't exist.

First of all, you know full well that your response is a fallacy - I never claimed it did not exist, I claimed that the accusation from Gates was the first thing in the entire mess that clearlly involved race. It is falalcious to say that since there is racism, it MUST have been racism despite no evidence that the officer did anything that had anything to do with Gates race before Gates started bleating and threatening.

So you think that in fact he was treated poorly because of racism - why?

What did the officer do prior to the arrest that was so clearly out of line and justified his being accused of being a racist by Gates?

You've never answered this question.

[The Minsky Moment]

Right, because as long as you don't say the word, it doesn't exist.

So you think that in fact he was treated poorly because of racism - why?

I suspect that race may have played a role in the officer's actions.  That suspicion is based on the difficulty I have imagining that in situation involving white persons of similar prominence in that community - such as the Mayor of the city or Justice Breyer - that the officer would have arrested that individual, cuffed him on the porch of his house, and then detained him in custody for 4-5 hours.  And so far, no one in this thread has suggested that the latter is a realistically imaginable scenario.

I recognize that this is not proof - I have no window into men's souls and can't read minds.  I am not conducting a prosecution here or demanding any particular disciplinary action.  No one other than Officer Crowley himself knows for sure what his true motivations were.  But the circumstantial evidence of the event itself is troubling and suggestive.

[Berkut]

Right, because as long as you don't say the word, it doesn't exist.

So you think that in fact he was treated poorly because of racism - why?

I suspect that race may have played a role in the officer's actions.  That suspicion is based on the difficulty I have imagining that in situation involving white persons of similar prominence in that community - such as the Mayor of the city or Justice Breyer - that the officer would have arrested that individual, cuffed him on the porch of his house, and then detained him in custody for 4-5 hours.  And so far, no one in this thread has suggested that the latter is a realistically imaginable scenario.

You know, I VERY specifically asked what this officer did prior to the arrest to justify Gates calling him a racist. You carefully editted that our of my response prior to answering my question.

So I will ask it again - what did the officer do to bring on this tirade and yelling/screaming/threats from Gates?

Gates was arrested because he spazzed out and threatened the officer. You may think that the arrest was unwarranted, but it came as a result of Gates actions, so you cannot argue that his arrest is what precipitated Gates actions. Gates did not know he was going to be arrested when he started tossing around the race card, so how can that be your reason to justify his claim that this is about racism?

I recognize that this is not proof - I have no window into men's souls and can't read minds.  I am not conducting a prosecution here or demanding any particular disciplinary action.  No one other than Officer Crowley himself knows for sure what his true motivations were.  But the circumstantial evidence of the event itself is troubling and suggestive.

The circumstantial evidence is that Gates brought up race before there was any reason whatsoever to believe that his race had any bearing on Crowleys actions. If that is not the case, please cite *something* to justify your attempt to refute my observation that Gates is the one who made this about race.

[Jaron]

Here is another (almost certainly) racially motivated police action. Defend this one, Berkie.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/oklahoma.trooper.suspended/index.html

[The Minsky Moment]

You know, I VERY specifically asked what this officer did prior to the arrest to justify Gates calling him a racist. You carefully editted that our of my response prior to answering my question.

So I will ask it again - what did the officer do to bring on this tirade and yelling/screaming/threats from Gates?

Gates was arrested because he spazzed out and threatened the officer. You may think that the arrest was unwarranted, but it came as a result of Gates actions, so you cannot argue that his arrest is what precipitated Gates actions. Gates did not know he was going to be arrested when he started tossing around the race card, so how can that be your reason to justify his claim that this is about racism?

You asked more than one question and I answered what I thought was the most pertinent one.  I am not here to argue that Gates behaved appropriately or even rationally, although I can understand why someone suddenly confronted by a police officer in one's own house just after getting back from a long trip might get flustered, angry, or even spazzy.

I agree that the mere fact that the cop went to the door is in no way indicative of racial bias.  IF the police report is entirely complete and accurate, I also would agree that his conduct prior to the arrest does not appear unusual.  [However, if *Gates'* version of the story is correct, it may be a different story]  What is suspicious and hard to explain is the decision to actually make the arrest and bring formal charges.  Whether Gates had a basis for his verbal invective at the time he made his statements seems to me besides the point.

[Berkut]

It is certainly not beside MY point which you have been trying to refute, which is that Gates is the one who made this all about race.

[Berkut]

Here is another (almost certainly) racially motivated police action. Defend this one, Berkie.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/oklahoma.trooper.suspended/index.html

Why would I do that?

I am not the one defending racism, you will have to ask JR for that - he is the one who is cheerleading for Mr. Race Card.

[swallow]

The police report said that when Crowley walked out of the home, Gates followed and continued to accuse the officer of racism. Crowley then handcuffed him.

The photo of him handcuffed shows him standing on his porch.  It doesn't seem that he actually followed the policeman off his property.  Also there are three policeman and the report says he followed one out of his house. It intimated that only one policeman was here at this point.  And in any case, the 'offence' would therefore have been committed after reinforcements had arrived, suggesting he was already accused of causing trouble. The police report doesn't match the sequence of events

[Eddie Teach]

Why dear god why?  One arrest with dropped charges hardly seems worthy of a Presidential statement.

Sure, it's not necessary, but we should hardly fault a politician for actually saying what's on his mind.

[The Minsky Moment]

The police report is quite clear that Gates never left his porch.  The arresting officer states he had to climb back up the stairs and up onto the porch in order to arrest Gates.  The second officer who filed a report also stated that Gates remained on his porch while making the alleged statements.

Gates uses a cane to walk around - the idea of him chasing a police officer down stairs and onto the street would be amusing if not for the circumstances.   

[Berkut]

The police report said that when Crowley walked out of the home, Gates followed and continued to accuse the officer of racism. Crowley then handcuffed him.

The photo of him handcuffed shows him standing on his porch.  It doesn't seem that he actually followed the policeman off his property.  Also there are three policeman and the report says he followed one out of his house. It intimated that only one policeman was here at this point.  And in any case, the 'offence' would therefore have been committed after reinforcements had arrived, suggesting he was already accused of causing trouble. The police report doesn't match the sequence of events

I don't think that follows we don't know why reinforcements arrived - could be they were just responding to the original call.

[Berkut]

The police report is quite clear that Gates never left his porch.  The arresting officer states he had to climb back up the stairs and up onto the porch in order to arrest Gates.  The second officer who filed a report also stated that Gates remained on his porch while making the alleged statements.

Gates uses a cane to walk around - the idea of him chasing a police officer down stairs and onto the street would be amusing if not for the circumstances.  

How is this relevant? Is it ok for him to play the race card and accuse officers who are there trying to help him of being racists and threaten them as long as he doesn't step off of his porch to do so?