A Collection of Unimitigated Pedantry

[Razgovory]

Pastoralist weren't necessarily poor.  Their wealth was just in a different form than the more sedentary peoples.

[grumbler]

I reject the idea that any sort of poverty makes a warrior better.  All it does is make warriors hungrier.  I don't know what "decadence" is exactly in this situation or why it should make a soldier inferior.

I don't think this theory really works in the period after gunpowder was invented. Before that nomadic types were militarily comparable than the settled civilizations, sometimes better.

But how often has this worked out since 1500 or so?

Steppe peoples were occasionally better militarily than settled peoples, but 90% of the time it was the nomadic types coming put second-best.  We just hear less about it because it was the common occurrence, and so not noteworthy.

[The Minsky Moment]

The Arabs were hardly poor people.  The Bedouin lived a pretty hard life (and Mohammed was a Bedouin) but the Arabs were at the heart of the global trade system in the classical and post-classical era, and Syria was notoriously rich.

Muhammad was a merchant himself (according to the stories) as were the early converts and other leaders of Islam; this is not an accident. The merchant communities would have been most exposed to the religious ideas floating around from Judaism and Christianity that were incorporated into Islam.

[The Minsky Moment]

Steppe peoples were occasionally better militarily than settled peoples, but 90% of the time it was the nomadic types coming put second-best.  We just hear less about it because it was the common occurrence, and so not noteworthy.

As an example, nomadic peoples were a *constant* problem for whoever happened to be ruling the Iranian plateau from the time of the Achaemenids (themselves of nomadic origin) to the time of Reza Shah.  Most of the time they were just a nuisance and their presence and raiding activities didn't prevent the formation of enduring dynasties.  But when a dynasty weakened or a significant succession crisis occurred, they could take a more prominent role, either in supporting a claimant or supporting one of their own to form a new dynasty.

[crazy canuck]

I reject the idea that any sort of poverty makes a warrior better.  All it does is make warriors hungrier.  I don't know what "decadence" is exactly in this situation or why it should make a soldier inferior.

I don't think this theory really works in the period after gunpowder was invented. Before that nomadic types were militarily comparable than the settled civilizations, sometimes better.

But how often has this worked out since 1500 or so?

If nomadic types were comparable, hard to explain why the Roman empire lasted as long as it did in the East. Or the Egyptians.  Sure there were periods of trouble, but hardly comparable during the whole time period.

[Razgovory]

Pastoralists did do some farming and they were able to support artisans.  I don't know if their raiding was any more or less effective than raiding by more sedentary populations.

[Valmy]

I reject the idea that any sort of poverty makes a warrior better.  All it does is make warriors hungrier.  I don't know what "decadence" is exactly in this situation or why it should make a soldier inferior.

I don't think this theory really works in the period after gunpowder was invented. Before that nomadic types were militarily comparable than the settled civilizations, sometimes better.

But how often has this worked out since 1500 or so?

If nomadic types were comparable, hard to explain why the Roman empire lasted as long as it did in the East. Or the Egyptians.  Sure there were periods of trouble, but hardly comparable during the whole time period.

I disagree completely that it is hard to explain. Vastly larger numbers and organization and wealth but that was not decisive militarily, the Eastern Romans often had little choice but to bribe other nomadic peoples to deal with their enemies as they were unable to defeat them militarily by themselves. How can you look at their problems with the Bulgarians and the Turks (and the Avars and the Pechenegs and others) and claim that nomadic warriors were not a serious military problem for the Eastern Romans?

I don't understand this point unless the assertion is that "comparable" means vastly inferior. The nomadic nations were typically no more able to just roll over the civilized powers anymore than the civilized powers were able to dominate the steppe. They were comparable not dominant...with some exceptions when nomadic tribes conquered China (as happened more than once...) or usurped a powerful Islamic settled state (which happened more than once...). Those were exceptions, as noted, but the fact was that the nomadic tribes were capable of doing that. They were a powerful military force that the settled civilizations had to fear.

But this has not been true for at least 300 years.

[crazy canuck]

You are ignoring a span of hundreds of years when nomads bothered the Romans not at all.  Your thesis really gets reduced to claiming that when rich settled areas fail nomads can take advantage

[Razgovory]

You are ignoring a span of hundreds of years when nomads bothered the Romans not at all.  Your thesis really gets reduced to claiming that when rich settled areas fail nomads can take advantage

When was this period of time?

[crazy canuck]

You are ignoring a span of hundreds of years when nomads bothered the Romans not at all.  Your thesis really gets reduced to claiming that when rich settled areas fail nomads can take advantage

When was this period of time?

Easier to talk about the years when it was a problem.  If you are suggesting that nomads were a constant problem, then I am wondering whether the issue is the meaning of the word nomad.

[Duque de Bragança]

Guy roaming the badlands with Lorenzo Lamas hair > trained militia type.

As in Joe Lara of American Cyborg or Steel Frontier fame ('90s video store fodder), admittedly a Lorenzo Lamas ('90s video store fodder) lookalike?

[celedhring]

Ah, Joe Lara, "famous" in Spain for starring in the Epic Adventures of Tarzan.

American Cyborg riped off Terminator and somehow also Children of Men avant-le-lettre.

[The Brain]

How good is American Cyborg? Is it essential viewing?

[celedhring]

I don't recall it featuring lesbian sex, so I guess that's a no?

[Duque de Bragança]

Ah, Joe Lara, "famous" in Spain for starring in the Epic Adventures of Tarzan.

American Cyborg riped off Terminator and somehow also Children of Men avant-le-lettre.

How many times do you need to be reminded that Children of Men is a rip-off of an Italian rip-off called 2019 after the Fall of New York?