Quo Vadis GOP?

[DGuller]

But keep bringing it up over and over again. Once again, I didn't even mention you, yet here you are trotting out your defense. I think you know perfectly well what I am saying, and you know I am right. Which is why you are so incredibly defensive about it.

You don't have to mention Beeb for him to know that it's aimed at him.  It was pretty clear to me as well that this was aimed at him, just like the ten previous posts of this nature in random threads.

[Berkut]

But keep bringing it up over and over again. Once again, I didn't even mention you, yet here you are trotting out your defense. I think you know perfectly well what I am saying, and you know I am right. Which is why you are so incredibly defensive about it.

You don't have to mention Beeb for him to know that it's aimed at him.  It was pretty clear to me as well that this was aimed at him, just like the ten previous of this nature in random threads.

Nothing random at all, and nothing specifically aimed at Beebs either.

The destruction of faith in the media has far reaching implications, hence there is nothing random about it coming up in a variety of contexts.

The fact that Beeb is such a champion of the narrative means that he feels a need to come to its defense when he perceives it to be under attack. That is on him, not me.

I do find it rather ironic that he would be complaining about people believing QAnon, when it is his cherished narrative that has directly led to people believing QAnon, among other shitty outcomes.

It might be "clear to you" that it was aimed at Beeb, but it is clear to me it was not - and since I was doing the aiming, I suspect I am the better authority on the subject.

[Barrister]

The fact that Beeb is such a champion of the narrative means that he feels a need to come to its defense when he perceives it to be under attack. That is on him, not me.

I do find it rather ironic that he would be complaining about people believing QAnon, when it is his cherished narrative that has directly led to people believing QAnon, among other shitty outcomes.

So I have to worry about "where my narrative might lead".  And not whether or not it is true.  Gotcha.

[Barrister]

And Beeb, I notice you are very quiet in response to my actual data showing how belief in your narrative of liberal media bias directly leads to belief in alternative sources of information - the very same ones you so breathlessly wonder about how people could possibly believe?

I would have thought you'd agree that one should speak the truth as one sees it without concern about "where it might lead".

Cuz otherwise that can lead pretty quickly to some pretty dark places.

[Berkut]

Except that we know that it is not in fact true, as has also been rather conclusively shown.

And I addressed that as well, which you also ignored. It is about as "true" as saying "Climate scientists are divided on the human causes of global warming!". A statement that can be defended on technical grounds, but which the speaker knows is not true in any real sense, and has a very specific agenda behind it that is an outright lie.

And yes, you should in fact worry about how you repeating something you know isn't true is actually damaging to things you value. Of course, when the things you value come into conflict, it says a lot about your actual values when you can see what gives.

[Berkut]

The fact that Beeb is such a champion of the narrative means that he feels a need to come to its defense when he perceives it to be under attack. That is on him, not me.

I do find it rather ironic that he would be complaining about people believing QAnon, when it is his cherished narrative that has directly led to people believing QAnon, among other shitty outcomes.

So I have to worry about "where my narrative might lead".  And not whether or not it is true.  Gotcha.

As Yi was kind enough to point out, you should most definitely be worried about where your myth leads, and why it is being pushed, and whether you should help push it.

If you are pushing the "You know, Jews really did have Jesus murdered..." narrative in 1933 Germany, yeah, you should probably have some concern about why that narrative is being pushed, and what the effects of it are, and what reason YOU have to repeat it.

Or not. There were millions of Germans who probably repeated that narrative, and then were SHOCKED, SHOCKED I SAY! when the were escorted through their local concentration camp. I am sure they all told themselves the same thing. Sure am glad that didn't lead to "dark place"!

[Barrister]

Except that we know that it is not in fact true, as has also been rather conclusively shown.

Repetition does not make something "conclusively shown" Berkut.

[Berkut]

Except that we know that it is not in fact true, as has also been rather conclusively shown.

Repetition does not make something "conclusively shown" Berkut.

No, but actually showing something to be true does, no matter how much you repeat that you know something is true because you feel that way.

Again, notice that you just ignore the meat of the argument. I get that you are really invested in this story. But wanting something to be true doesn't actually make it true, even if it does align so nicely with your political views.

[Barrister]

Except that we know that it is not in fact true, as has also been rather conclusively shown.

Repetition does not make something "conclusively shown" Berkut.

No, but actually showing something to be true does, no matter how much you repeat that you know something is true because you feel that way.

Again, notice that you just ignore the meat of the argument. I get that you are really invested in this story. But wanting something to be true doesn't actually make it true, even if it does align so nicely with your political views.

Repetition does not make something "conclusively shown" Berkut.

[Berkut]

Ok Barrister. You keep on keeping on.

But do stop wondering how the crazy ass nutjobs on the right keep managing to convince people to vote for racism and bigotry and denial of science. Because you know the answer, even if you want to pretend otherwise.

[Barrister]

Ok Barrister. You keep on keeping on.

But do stop wondering how the crazy ass nutjobs on the right keep managing to convince people to vote for racism and bigotry and denial of science. Because you know the answer, even if you want to pretend otherwise.

Clearly the answer is because I said that the mainstream media is biased on Languish.

[DGuller]

Ok Barrister. You keep on keeping on.

But do stop wondering how the crazy ass nutjobs on the right keep managing to convince people to vote for racism and bigotry and denial of science. Because you know the answer, even if you want to pretend otherwise.

Clearly the answer is because I said that the mainstream media is biased on Languish.

What the fuck, Beeb, what the fuck?  Why did you say that?

[Berkut]

Ok Barrister. You keep on keeping on.

But do stop wondering how the crazy ass nutjobs on the right keep managing to convince people to vote for racism and bigotry and denial of science. Because you know the answer, even if you want to pretend otherwise.

Clearly the answer is because I said that the mainstream media is biased on Languish.

The answer is very much because the right has convinced their faithful that the media is not a fair player, and the truth cannot be found in the mainstream media.

Ideas have consequences.

So, yes, it is in fact quite clear (as shown by actual evidence posted) that in fact the attack on the integrity of the mainstream media has directly led to the radicalization of the right and the rise of alternative media.

Again, this is not complicated. The most interesting part of the interchange is another example of just how hard it is to get someone to change their cherished beliefs, even in light of clear evidence.

[Barrister]

Ok Barrister. You keep on keeping on.

But do stop wondering how the crazy ass nutjobs on the right keep managing to convince people to vote for racism and bigotry and denial of science. Because you know the answer, even if you want to pretend otherwise.

Clearly the answer is because I said that the mainstream media is biased on Languish.

The answer is very much because the right has convinced their faithful that the media is not a fair player, and the truth cannot be found in the mainstream media.

Ideas have consequences.

So, yes, it is in fact quite clear (as shown by actual evidence posted) that in fact the attack on the integrity of the mainstream media has directly led to the radicalization of the right and the rise of alternative media.

Again, this is not complicated. The most interesting part of the interchange is another example of just how hard it is to get someone to change their cherished beliefs, even in light of clear evidence.

Repetition does not make something "conclusively shown" Berkut.

[HVC]

Ok Barrister. You keep on keeping on.

But do stop wondering how the crazy ass nutjobs on the right keep managing to convince people to vote for racism and bigotry and denial of science. Because you know the answer, even if you want to pretend otherwise.

Clearly the answer is because I said that the mainstream media is biased on Languish.

What the fuck, Beeb, what the fuck?  Why did you say that?

you're biased against BB being biased. someone should bring it up in every second thread. that'll teach you!