Quo Vadis GOP?

[Legbiter]

Also I support lockdown's but AR is right that it is - and always has been - ridiculous to impose on outdoor gatherings as if they're the same as indoor gatherings when, in the context of an airborne disease, they're nowhere near the same risk..

Yeah.

Also this has to be said, it's extremely tiresome watching otherwise reliable, staid and slightly boring centrist dad Yanks turn into what I can only describe as Serbtards ca. 2000 OT Paradox forum with their impotent extreme creep revenge fantasies, disaster porn and broad, sweeping pronouncements of imminent catastrophe. All directed against their own countrymen.

[Jacob]

No it isn't. I have a vaccine card from a federal vaccine site. When I was traveling internationally in May that was checked. Canada can do so as well.

How easy is it to fake? How easy is it to obtain fraudulently? How many different vaccine cards are there to keep track of?

What are the risks that someone vaccinated in another jurisdiction has received a faulty vaccine? What are the risks that someone who's been vaccinated can still carry the virus and spread it to the unprotected? What are the risks that a vaccinated person carries a new variant across the border?

[The Minsky Moment]

You are arguing in circles. What started this was you asked Legbiter, "Isn't that the advice you gave us Yank posters when your guy Trump got elected?  Don't get your panties in a bunch, etc.

How did that turn out?"

And I responded:

"It didn't turn out so bad. Life went on."

Did I say anything about COVID in that exchange?  I'll save you the trouble of looking: I didn't.  I didn't because I was even thinking about COVID when I wrote that, nor was that the context of the exchange.

The Trump presidency culminated in the assault of the nation's Capitol Building by a pack of vandals who came within a hair breadth of lynching a politician.  That's pretty damn bad.

Did life go on?  Sure. And life also went on for Japan after the USAF hit them in 45.  Hell within a matter of years they were even better off than before.  Does life go on is an absurdly low standard.

You may not like comparing a US state to a country--but we are a federal republic and the restrictions put in place in each state differed dramatically. After the fact it is exceedingly difficult to measure benefits from specific policies to outcomes. I was pointing out that even if we attribute significant portions of negative outcomes to laxer policies, it isn't at all clear those were not worth the incremental cost. I don't agree with Jacob's blanket initial premise that Canada had a better outcome than the US.

It's not what I like or don't like.  Viruses don't really care about the nuances of federalism.  They are oblivious to the location of state lines. If state X acts irresponsibly but other states act more responsibly then state X still gets the benefit of responsible behavior elsewhere.  That has to be taken into account.  There are also characteristics of different places - e.g. density and other conditions favoring or disfavoring spread in particular places that have to be taken into account.   Either one does a proper study with real controls or you are just picking out a bunch of numbers and throwing them around .

if the focus is just on straight fatality outcome data, then Jacob's initial premise that Canada had a better outcome than the US is unimpeachable. Canada's death/person number are way lower.  I don't think that is the end of the discussion but on the standard you seem to be proposing it should be.

Is Georgia's number better than Nova Scotia?  Is Atlanta better than Montreal?  Is Yonkers better than Thunder Bay?  Does any of that matter?

[Valmy]

Also I support lockdown's but AR is right that it is - and always has been - ridiculous to impose on outdoor gatherings as if they're the same as indoor gatherings when, in the context of an airborne disease, they're nowhere near the same risk..

Yeah.

Also this has to be said, it's extremely tiresome watching otherwise reliable, staid and slightly boring centrist dad Yanks turn into what I can only describe as Serbtards ca. 2000 OT Paradox forum with their impotent extreme creep revenge fantasies, disaster porn and broad, sweeping pronouncements of imminent catastrophe. All directed against their own countrymen.

Welcome to the culture war!

[The Minsky Moment]

Also this has to be said, it's extremely tiresome watching otherwise reliable, staid and slightly boring centrist dad Yanks turn into what I can only describe as Serbtards ca. 2000 OT Paradox forum with their impotent extreme creep revenge fantasies, disaster porn and broad, sweeping pronouncements of imminent catastrophe. All directed against their own countrymen.

Hence the subject matter of this thread.  Glad to see you are now as much of a critic of the Trumpist GOP as I am.

[Barrister]

Is Georgia's number better than Nova Scotia?  Is Atlanta better than Montreal?  Is Yonkers better than Thunder Bay?  Does any of that matter?

Anywhere has to be better than Thunder Bay...

[Legbiter]

Also I support lockdown's but AR is right that it is - and always has been - ridiculous to impose on outdoor gatherings as if they're the same as indoor gatherings when, in the context of an airborne disease, they're nowhere near the same risk..

Yeah.

Also this has to be said, it's extremely tiresome watching otherwise reliable, staid and slightly boring centrist dad Yanks turn into what I can only describe as Serbtards ca. 2000 OT Paradox forum with their impotent extreme creep revenge fantasies, disaster porn and broad, sweeping pronouncements of imminent catastrophe. All directed against their own countrymen.

Welcome to the culture war!

The only way to win is not to play?

[Jacob]

The only way to win is not to play?

Wish the GOP had thought of that before they kicked it off

[Habbaku]

Yes, basically.

[Berkut]

This is awesome.

I mean, I don't think you could get a better example of just outright arrogant and malicious contempt for other human beings if you were writing a story about it.

[The Minsky Moment]

Is Georgia's number better than Nova Scotia?  Is Atlanta better than Montreal?  Is Yonkers better than Thunder Bay?  Does any of that matter?

Anywhere has to be better than Thunder Bay...

Normally I'd start making snide comments about Yonkers at this point, but since they have a Pepe's pizza now, your point is probably well taken.

[Legbiter]

How so Berkut?

[Valmy]

Also I support lockdown's but AR is right that it is - and always has been - ridiculous to impose on outdoor gatherings as if they're the same as indoor gatherings when, in the context of an airborne disease, they're nowhere near the same risk..

Yeah.

Also this has to be said, it's extremely tiresome watching otherwise reliable, staid and slightly boring centrist dad Yanks turn into what I can only describe as Serbtards ca. 2000 OT Paradox forum with their impotent extreme creep revenge fantasies, disaster porn and broad, sweeping pronouncements of imminent catastrophe. All directed against their own countrymen.

Welcome to the culture war!

The only way to win is not to play?

Pretty much. I mean there are important issues at play, ones that you can certainly have strong opinions on. But, most of it just hysteria, fear mongering, and us vs them thinking. So even if you care greatly about some of the issues involved you have to be very careful not to be caught up in the nonsense.

[Barrister]

Is Georgia's number better than Nova Scotia?  Is Atlanta better than Montreal?  Is Yonkers better than Thunder Bay?  Does any of that matter?

Anywhere has to be better than Thunder Bay...

Normally I'd start making snide comments about Yonkers at this point, but since they have a Pepe's pizza now, your point is probably well taken.

I was just cracking wise - I enjoyed T Bay the one time I was there (went to Lakehead University for a MOdel UN conference in the mid-90s).  It was a long-ass drive though with nothing but empty Canadian sheid for hours in every direction though.

[alfred russel]

This is awesome.

I mean, I don't think you could get a better example of just outright arrogant and malicious contempt for other human beings if you were writing a story about it.

You actually got yourself infected with covid participating in a team sporting event (high school football), after defending to me the Pac 12's decision to hardly play any games last year because of safety. You knew it was a covid risk environment but still participated. Which is probably more high risk than anything I did prior to getting vaccinated.