What does a BIDEN Presidency look like?

[Berkut]

The language matters because it goes your message.

I'm glad you agree with me. Garbon probably thinks you must be a racist.

[Jacob]

Shelf, I think your request for more precision and concensus on the meaning of woke is a defense lawyer's tactic. 

No definition of woke that includes negatives is goiing to be acceptable to the woke community because they don't see themselves as flawed.  They think they are doing the work of the almighty.

But I think outrage is a good starting point.  I think there's a large overlap between woke and outrageaholic.  Outrage about perceived social injustice.  Outrage that others don't perceive it the same way.  Outrage that others mock their outrage.

Conversely, do you think the term "woke" is sometimes applied to dismiss folks who are in fact not addicted to outrage, who are not trying to paint everyone who disagrees with them as racist and so on?

Is it possible that someone would dismiss f. ex. you, me, Berkut, garbon, DGuller as being "woke" even if we're not?

On a different note - is there an equivalent term for outrageaholics on the right? And is there a term that initially was a self-identifier that has now become perjorative?

[frunk]

But I think outrage is a good starting point.  I think there's a large overlap between woke and outrageaholic.  Outrage about perceived social injustice.  Outrage that others don't perceive it the same way.  Outrage that others mock their outrage.

Outrageaholicism isn't exclusively from the left though.  Plenty of outrage about taking away guns, "fake" trans invading bathrooms and women's sporting events, socialist agendas, baby murder factories and many other nonsense problems.  In fact I think that's the core of where Carville has it wrong.  You can run on how nuts MTG and the reactionary right is, but it won't reach anybody that doesn't already know it.  The media headlines are driven by big ridiculous stories, and that isn't going to get any traction when MTG already says what she says to get the attention.  It's why the extremes are getting more play, we have a whole industry emphasizing it.

[Admiral Yi]

Outrageaholicism isn't exclusively from the left though.  Plenty of outrage about taking away guns, "fake" trans invading bathrooms and women's sporting events, socialist agendas, baby murder factories and many other nonsense problems.  In fact I think that's the core of where Carville has it wrong.  You can run on how nuts MTG and the reactionary right is, but it won't reach anybody that doesn't already know it.  The media headlines are driven by big ridiculous stories, and that isn't going to get any traction when MTG already says what she says to get the attention.  It's why the extremes are getting more play, we have a whole industry emphasizing it.

I agree. 

"Outrage in pursuit of social justice."

[Berkut]

But I think outrage is a good starting point.  I think there's a large overlap between woke and outrageaholic.  Outrage about perceived social injustice.  Outrage that others don't perceive it the same way.  Outrage that others mock their outrage.

Outrageaholicism isn't exclusively from the left though.  Plenty of outrage about taking away guns, "fake" trans invading bathrooms and women's sporting events, socialist agendas, baby murder factories and many other nonsense problems.  In fact I think that's the core of where Carville has it wrong.  You can run on how nuts MTG and the reactionary right is, but it won't reach anybody that doesn't already know it.  The media headlines are driven by big ridiculous stories, and that isn't going to get any traction when MTG already says what she says to get the attention.  It's why the extremes are getting more play, we have a whole industry emphasizing it.

I don't think anyone is arguing that outrage is unique to the left. Far, far, far from it. It is radically worse on the right.

[Admiral Yi]

Conversely, do you think the term "woke" is sometimes applied to dismiss folks who are in fact not addicted to outrage, who are not trying to paint everyone who disagrees with them as racist and so on?

Yes

On a different note - is there an equivalent term for outrageaholics on the right? And is there a term that initially was a self-identifier that has now become perjorative?

"Loony right."  "Gun nuts."  "Abortion clinic bombers."  "Angry old white men."

"Tea Party"

[Berkut]

Religious bigots

Gun nut whackos

Creationists

Assholes

Douchebags

Anti-democracy pieces of shit I am frankly ashamed I ever even remotely identified with.

[Berkut]

I am kind of drunk. Funny how fast whiskey works.

[frunk]

But I think outrage is a good starting point.  I think there's a large overlap between woke and outrageaholic.  Outrage about perceived social injustice.  Outrage that others don't perceive it the same way.  Outrage that others mock their outrage.

Outrageaholicism isn't exclusively from the left though.  Plenty of outrage about taking away guns, "fake" trans invading bathrooms and women's sporting events, socialist agendas, baby murder factories and many other nonsense problems.  In fact I think that's the core of where Carville has it wrong.  You can run on how nuts MTG and the reactionary right is, but it won't reach anybody that doesn't already know it.  The media headlines are driven by big ridiculous stories, and that isn't going to get any traction when MTG already says what she says to get the attention.  It's why the extremes are getting more play, we have a whole industry emphasizing it.

I don't think anyone is arguing that outrage is unique to the left. Far, far, far from it. It is radically worse on the right.

To me Yi's statement "there's a large overlap between woke and outrageaholic" implied that outrageaholicism was connected to wokeness rather than being a more general problem.

[Admiral Yi]

To me Yi's statement "there's a large overlap between woke and outrageaholic" implied that outrageaholicism was connected to wokeness rather than being a more general problem.

Yes, that was a failure of communication on my part.

[Berkut]

But I think outrage is a good starting point.  I think there's a large overlap between woke and outrageaholic.  Outrage about perceived social injustice.  Outrage that others don't perceive it the same way.  Outrage that others mock their outrage.

Outrageaholicism isn't exclusively from the left though.  Plenty of outrage about taking away guns, "fake" trans invading bathrooms and women's sporting events, socialist agendas, baby murder factories and many other nonsense problems.  In fact I think that's the core of where Carville has it wrong.  You can run on how nuts MTG and the reactionary right is, but it won't reach anybody that doesn't already know it.  The media headlines are driven by big ridiculous stories, and that isn't going to get any traction when MTG already says what she says to get the attention.  It's why the extremes are getting more play, we have a whole industry emphasizing it.

I don't think anyone is arguing that outrage is unique to the left. Far, far, far from it. It is radically worse on the right.

To me Yi's statement "there's a large overlap between woke and outrageaholic" implied that outrageaholicism was connected to wokeness rather than being a more general problem.

I can't speak for Yi, but I suspect that is not what he meant.

I mean really, there is not way you can even compare the two. My bitch about the left is based in no way on any kind of comparative analysis with the right.

It is based on

1. Tactics. I want the left to win, and I think this harms their chances of doing so.
2. Objective, rational, and reasoned appeals to actual logic and free discourse. I think the behavior of the "woke" left  is harmful to actual progress, which should be based on reason, data, analysis, and rigor and open and comfortable exchange of ideas without fear. That makes it actually in contravention to the actual values that I believe make me a progressive to begin with.

[Valmy]

Everybody enjoying Joe's speech?

[The Brain]

Joe who?

[Valmy]

Sorry to post about Joe Biden in the wokeaholic thread.

Anyway I thought he did well and even got Ted Cruz to go to sleep.

[Jacob]

Sorry to post about Joe Biden in the wokeaholic thread.

Anyway I thought he did well and even got Ted Cruz to go to sleep.

Summary please