What does a BIDEN Presidency look like?

[Josquius]

Is it just me, or does it seem ironic that Gaetz and company needed the help of Democrats to oust McCarthy, for the crime of seeking help from Democrats to pass a spending bill?  Gaetz needed a bit more help than McCarthy as well.

What was the logic of Democrats helping oust a guy that went to them to break the deadlock within their own party?  Aren't they just making themselves irrelevant?

Crazy republicans will never get somebody in charge.
Sane republicans will have to find a more democrat agreeable guy to get things moving and not embarrass their party?

[Admiral Yi]

My impression is neither party votes in favor of a Speaker from the other party.  It's just the way things have always been done.

I did a google search on "has a house speaker ever been elected with bipartisan support" and I got some articles about state legislatures which had done it, and a lot of reasons why it's unlikely to happen at the federal level.

[Josquius]

My impression is neither party votes in favor of a Speaker from the other party.  It's just the way things have always been done.

I did a google search on "has a house speaker ever been elected with bipartisan support" and I got some articles about state legislatures which had done it, and a lot of reasons why it's unlikely to happen at the federal level.

Traditionally a chunk of one party wasn't compromised by proto fascists however.

[OttoVonBismarck]

It is kind of a parliamentary strategy thing, in theory you aren't supposed to help the opposition maintain their majority, it is on them to make their majority work, not you.

[DGuller]

I understand that it's the orthodox strategy, but perhaps it doesn't automatically fit in such unorthodox times.  I accept that Democrats may have had specific reasons to sink McCarthy, but I'm not sure that right now automatically helping sink every GOP speaker is the right strategy for them. 

The problem with being a non-negotiable vote is that no one bothers negotiating with you.  If Democrats always vote down non-insane and insane GOP speakers, and Gaetz always votes down non-insane GOP speakers, then eventually we get an insane GOP speaker.  No matter how resolute the non-Gaetz Republicans are, ultimately they're still the only ones with flexibility to give in.

[garbon]

Just because McCarthy isn't Gaetz doesn't him non-insane. After all he has supported Trump quite vigorously and advanced the stolen election narrative.

[The Minsky Moment]

McCarthy's rambling semi-incoherent and whiny press conference explains why House Dems may have lost patience with him.  His disgraceful vendetta against Adam Schiff alone would be a basis for no confidence from the House Dem caucus.

[Barrister]

I think the Dems said they were open to working with McCarty on the speakership vote but "they wouldn't be a cheap date".  As Minsky points out however McCarthy did absolutely nothing to try and appeal to the house Dems.

[Sheilbh]

I think the Dems said they were open to working with McCarty on the speakership vote but "they wouldn't be a cheap date".  As Minsky points out however McCarthy did absolutely nothing to try and appeal to the house Dems.

Not only that but my understanding is that he also agreed to change the rules to make it easier to remove a Speaker as part of that package of concessions to the MAGA lot. Those were rules the Democrats hadn't touched when they had the House precisely because it would make the Speaker vulnerable to this sort of vote which would be too easy in their view. And given the way they were over electing him to the role that feels lke Chekhov's concession

He wasn't willing to make meaningful concessions in order to get the votes from the other side, he made concessions to his internal opponents that would make it easier for them to defenestrate him - and now it's happened.

[Barrister]

I think the Dems said they were open to working with McCarty on the speakership vote but "they wouldn't be a cheap date".  As Minsky points out however McCarthy did absolutely nothing to try and appeal to the house Dems.

Not only that but my understanding is that he also agreed to change the rules to make it easier to remove a Speaker as part of that package of concessions to the MAGA lot. Those were rules the Democrats hadn't touched when they had the House precisely because it would make the Speaker vulnerable to this sort of vote which would be too easy in their view. And given the way they were over electing him to the role that feels lke Chekhov's concession

He wasn't willing to make meaningful concessions in order to get the votes from the other side, he made concessions to his internal opponents that would make it easier for them to defenestrate him - and now it's happened.

Commentator Charlie Sykes referred to McCarthy as speaker as being "self-gelded" for exactly that reason.

[Jacob]

"Self-gelded" 

[OttoVonBismarck]

Yeah, to my mind Democrats acted appropriately here.

They had said they were willing to work with McCarthy--and several important pieces of legislation, more of them voted for passage than McCarthy's caucus. Including the debt ceiling deal, in which McCarthy made a number of promises to Biden and the Democrats, which he almost immediately reneged on.

Despite being willing to work with him, McCarthy also did petty things like JR mentioned, stripping Adam Schiff of committee assignments because Trump really hates Schiff since he spearheaded the impeachment hearings against him. Total bullshit move that actually undermines the legitimacy of the impeachment process and helped promote the idea that Trump was "wrongfully" impeached.

When the time to pay the piper came due, McCarthy backed into a corner made it clear he wasn't willing to give the Democrats anything at all in exchange for them saving him--so they gave likewise, not a single vote to help him out.

From a game theory view I don't really know that McCarthy could have viably done a deal with the Democrats, it would have kept his Speakership alive, but likely the 8-10 really anti-McCarthy hardliners would balloon real fast once it settled in that they now had a "Bipartisan" Speaker who had made meaningful concessions to Democrats to keep his post, and probably even further undermined him.

The position of any Speaker who cannot function without the help of the opposition is intrinsically unstable, which is what lead to both Boehner and Ryan ending their Speakerships (Boehner in the face of a real revolt like this, Ryan mostly just deciding he hated these people and wanted out.)

[Zanza]

From the outside, the GOP looks completely dysfunctional as a political party. Surprising that they still have appeal for voters.

[mongers]

From the outside, the GOP looks completely dysfunctional as a political party. Surprising that they still have appeal for voters.

It's a comedy act, tribute to the keystone cops.

[grumbler]

From the outside, the GOP looks completely dysfunctional as a political party. Surprising that they still have appeal for voters.

The voters they appeal to believe that anything Democratic is an existential threat to the US.  Compared to the Democratic threat (in their minds), mere greed, corruption, dishonesty, and slimy political moves are the lessor evil.

I don't quite understand how half the US voting population has gone insane, but that's where we are.