US Election Week 2020

[Oexmelin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYvOTvqlFs

Georgia Voting Systems Manager debunking fraud allegations.  It's long.

Too late; doesn't matter.

[grumbler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYvOTvqlFs

Georgia Voting Systems Manager debunking fraud allegations.  It's long.

Too late; doesn't matter.

I hope you are right, sine he was trying to reverse Republican voter self-suppression in tomorrow's election.

From your mouth to God's ear.

[alfred russel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYvOTvqlFs

Georgia Voting Systems Manager debunking fraud allegations.  It's long.

Too late; doesn't matter.

Too late? What the fuck? There has been consistent "debunking" all along. People just don't want to accept reality, and there are plenty of opportunists ready to cater to them.

The "Georgia Voting Systems Manager" is not exactly a prominent public official.

[Oexmelin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYvOTvqlFs

Georgia Voting Systems Manager debunking fraud allegations.  It's long.

Too late; doesn't matter.

Too late? What the fuck? There has been consistent "debunking" all along. People just don't want to accept reality, and there are plenty of opportunists ready to cater to them.

The "Georgia Voting Systems Manager" is not exactly a prominent public official.

Precisely. Which is why I say it doesn't matter. You now have a substantial body of Americans who will forever believe that the elections were stolen through fraud by the Democratic party; that these Republicans are doing their duty to the Constitution - because that is the narrative being pushed; that the President is merely trying to restore what has, in face, truly happened. Now, every attempt at showing how, in fact, it is Trump who is attempting a coup, is received as him actually trying to prevent the real coup by the Deep state; that his attempts, and Republicans attempts at disenfranchisement are actually to preserve the voice of Americans.   

It is too late because people waited for the thing to happen in order to fight the narrative. Trump has been telegraphing his behavior in these current moments four years ago. The time to prepare for this sort of manoeuvre was then, not now. Now, it's too late. Trump may not get away with it - as in, he may yet be removed (and the fact that many feel the need to use that conditional ought to be utterly frightening). But illiberal Republicans will not be going away, and they have their base, and it is substantial. That base is functioning just like their equivalents are in Hungary, believing themselves the true defenders of what they are actively undermining.

[Eddie Teach]

People who want to believe Trump's narrative will, but for most the truth is more important.

[Oexmelin]

People who want to believe Trump's narrative will, but for most the truth is more important.

I'd like to believe that, but these believers are very politically active, and keep successfully electing Republicans to key positions. We are not talking about a marginal constituency here.

[Admiral Yi]

Precisely. Which is why I say it doesn't matter. You now have a substantial body of Americans who will forever believe that the elections were stolen through fraud by the Democratic party; that these Republicans are doing their duty to the Constitution - because that is the narrative being pushed; that the President is merely trying to restore what has, in face, truly happened. Now, every attempt at showing how, in fact, it is Trump who is attempting a coup, is received as him actually trying to prevent the real coup by the Deep state; that his attempts, and Republicans attempts at disenfranchisement are actually to preserve the voice of Americans.   

It is too late because people waited for the thing to happen in order to fight the narrative. Trump has been telegraphing his behavior in these current moments four years ago. The time to prepare for this sort of manoeuvre was then, not now. Now, it's too late. Trump may not get away with it - as in, he may yet be removed (and the fact that many feel the need to use that conditional ought to be utterly frightening). But illiberal Republicans will not be going away, and they have their base, and it is substantial. That base is functioning just like their equivalents are in Hungary, believing themselves the true defenders of what they are actively undermining.

I don't follow your logic here.  Republican officials are debunking allegations of fraud, but people still believe there was widespread fraud.  You say if they had started earlier, before the allegations of fraud were made, people would have changed their minds?

As an aside, what's the deal with the 17% of Democrats who believe the election was rigged?  Berniebros still butthurt about the primary?

[The Minsky Moment]

As an aside, what's the deal with the 17% of Democrats who believe the election was rigged?

Possibly a reaction to various state and local voter suppression efforts?

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRGq4BNgMxg

Republican pollster Frank Lutz says things look bad for Republicans in GA senate runoff.

[alfred russel]

I'd really save the outrage for tomorrow, when elected republicans vote to reject the electoral votes of certain states that went to Biden. I think that will happen, and that is beyond the pale.

[The Minsky Moment]

Come to think of it, one way the Dems can respond to this bipartisan commission blather is to say sure - so long as the commission's responsibility encompasses voter suppression efforts like polling place closures and recommendation of a new formula for Congress to enact for Section 4(b) of the Voting Rights Act.

[The Minsky Moment]

I'd really save the outrage for tomorrow, when elected republicans vote to reject the electoral votes of certain states that went to Biden. I think that will happen, and that is beyond the pale.

That does get to Oex's point - the time for the outrage is when it is proposed not after it is done.  To make clear before the fact that behavior has consequences.

[alfred russel]

I'd really save the outrage for tomorrow, when elected republicans vote to reject the electoral votes of certain states that went to Biden. I think that will happen, and that is beyond the pale.

That does get to Oex's point - the time for the outrage is when it is proposed not after it is done.  To make clear before the fact that behavior has consequences.

Both Republican Senate candidates in Georgia have said they will object to the electoral vote submission. What good is acting outraged going to serve? I guess we will have an idea this evening if their calculations are correct, but it seems they have calculated it is to their advantage to do so. They think the consequence of their behavior will be election to the US Senate - I presume well paid consultants told them this. People that were never going to vote for them anyway acting outraged won't solve that.

[Barrister]

Both Republican Senate candidates in Georgia have said they will object to the electoral vote submission. What good is acting outraged going to serve? I guess we will have an idea this evening if their calculations are correct, but it seems they have calculated it is to their advantage to do so. They think the consequence of their behavior will be election to the US Senate - I presume well paid consultants told them this. People that were never going to vote for them anyway acting outraged won't solve that.

PRetty sure the consultants told them that saying Georgia's election was illegitimate would hurt them - but that breaking with Trump would hurt them more.

[Razgovory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRGq4BNgMxg

Republican pollster Frank Lutz says things look bad for Republicans in GA senate runoff.

God, I hope so.  If Trump costs the party two Senate seats it may bring about some sort of introspection.  That may be too much to hope for, but it's at least something.