US Election Week 2020

[DGuller]

Every country has its extremists, but it seems like the multi-party system has a safety valve to absorb them.  In the US, the extremists either are marginalized or dominate one of the two major parties.

[crazy canuck]

Do you want to win or not? Presuming you do, you can't just write half the electorate off.

Well then, the strategy is clear.  The Dems should agree that the election was rigged to appease the 50% (although I really doubt the number is that high) of complete idiots in your country.

I am sure things will end well.

[Valmy]

Do you want to win or not? Presuming you do, you can't just write half the electorate off.

Well then, the strategy is clear.  The Dems should agree that the election was rigged to appease the 50% (although I really doubt the number is that high) of complete idiots in your country.

I am sure things will end well.

I don't see how that helps us win. Besides if all we did was get all the Biden voters to show up and vote Democrat down ballot consistently we would be in pretty good shape. That is, by definition, over half the electorate.

[Eddie Teach]

If raising the minimum wage and legalizing pot are good policy(I think they are), does it matter which party does them?

[Valmy]

If raising the minimum wage and legalizing pot are good policy(I think they are), does it matter which party does them?

Yes and no. Ultimately these are just things that have to get done and obviously at the end of the day they just need to get done no matter how much the Democrats fail to do them.

They were progressive policies that were popular that Democrats could have done to win support and votes. When Republicans do them well that eats away at our base and it was a missed opportunity for political victories.

[crazy canuck]

Do you want to win or not? Presuming you do, you can't just write half the electorate off.

Well then, the strategy is clear.  The Dems should agree that the election was rigged to appease the 50% (although I really doubt the number is that high) of complete idiots in your country.

I am sure things will end well.

I don't see how that helps us win. Besides if all we did was get all the Biden voters to show up and vote Democrat down ballot consistently we would be in pretty good shape. That is, by definition, over half the electorate.

Really, you think I was being serious.... get another coffee Valmy.

[Solmyr]

https://twitter.com/markhelenowski/status/1329495664133361664 

[Valmy]

Really, you think I was being serious.... get another coffee Valmy.

Of course I didn't think you were being serious. However, I was pointing out how wrong your sarcastic point was. That somehow we had to appease the truest of the Trump fans. We don't, but Eddie's point still stands. A lot of those Biden voters are not Democrats. Some of them might have even voted for Trump in 2016. We cannot just write off everybody not on our team.

When I said "I don't see how that helps us win." That was a joke. I was being sarcastic.

[Sheilbh]

Well in this country the only real place to go is the other major party unless you just plan on ending your political career. I don't see Romney or Sasse joining team blue. They should but they won't.

Yeah - my approach wouldbe to try and get a bloc together and leave as "Independent Republicans" or something similar. I'm not suggesting they join the Democrats, but there is an issue here with staying in the party once this becomes their approach - you know get rid of the figleaf.

[crazy canuck]

Really, you think I was being serious.... get another coffee Valmy.

Of course I didn't think you were being serious. However, I was pointing out how wrong your sarcastic point was. That somehow we had to appease the truest of the Trump fans. We don't, but Eddie's point still stands. A lot of those Biden voters are not Democrats. Some of them might have even voted for Trump in 2016. We cannot just write off everybody not on our team.

When I said "I don't see how that helps us win." That was a joke. I was being sarcastic.

In one breath you said he was wrong and then right.

His (and your) point that there is an equivalency between people wanting to defund the police (and completely ignoring what that meant in terms of reforming the role police have) and destruction of your democracy the GOP is now engaged in is astounding.

I am coming to the view that the real problem is people who want to appease the fascist or at least not upset them too much.  Your country is broken.  Sucking up the the people who broke it is not the way.

[Sheilbh]

I agree with statements I've heard to just let the certifications by Georgia (today the 20th), and Michigan and Pennsylvania (on Monday iirc) play out, all this performance art by the hacks that are his legal team aren't doing anything besides playing to Trump and the deluded 45% who aren't going to be swayed by anything Biden could do at this point anyway. And each days seems to be more cracks and defections (Romney and Sasse and Ernst in last day)

Although they might also create enough doubt to hold up certifications. See this from the Washington Post last night:

Michigan GOP official leaning toward seeking to delay certification of vote
By Beth Reinhard

One of the two Republican members of the four-member Michigan canvassing board, Norman Shinkle, said Thursday said that he is leaning toward asking for a delay in the certification vote and calling for an audit. The board is scheduled to vote Monday.

"I do think with all of the potential problems, if any of them are true, an audit is appropriate," he said in a telephone interview. "I take one step at a time, and if we can get more information, why not?"

Among his concerns: the debunked claim by Trump allies, including attorney Sidney Powell, that Dominion Voting Systems, the Colorado-based manufacturer of voting machines, deleted thousands of Trump votes. "If Dominion was fudging votes, that's a serious problem," he said. "If it's true. I don't know. I have to be convinced of it. That's why the audit makes sense."

Shinkle said his duties go beyond certifying the election — to get to the bottom of any alleged improprieties — even though no evidence of widespread fraud has been found. "Right now the idea to check into some of these accusations seem to make sense to me," he said. "We have to have people trust our system going forward."

Shinkle is under intense scrutiny in part because his wife, Mary Shinkle, filed an affidavit supporting a federal lawsuit by the Trump campaign. The lawsuit was withdrawn. Shinkle said he had not read the affidavit and that people should not assume he would be biased by it. "That's almost an accusation against marriage," he said. "My wife can do whatever she wants to do."

Shinkle joked that his phone is ringing constantly from fellow Republicans urging him not to certify the vote. "Every time someone calls, they tell me about a new problem," he said. He said he hasn't heard from President Trump or any of his representatives, but if he did, "I would say hi. They have a position to advocate."

Asked whether he considered Joe Biden the president-elect, he said: "I haven't thought about that, but the odds are probably that he will become president. But I don't know what's going to happen in Pennsylvania or Nevada. My job is to try to do the right thing for the vote in Michigan."

It creates space for this sort of argument to be almost plausible: "there are enough legal challenges and enough doubt about this election to cast isues on whether it was trustworthy and I cannot, in good conscience, certify it." I don't know if that would work in all states or what the consequences would be.

[Valmy]

Well in this country the only real place to go is the other major party unless you just plan on ending your political career. I don't see Romney or Sasse joining team blue. They should but they won't.

Yeah - my approach wouldbe to try and get a bloc together and leave as "Independent Republicans" or something similar. I'm not suggesting they join the Democrats, but there is an issue here with staying in the party once this becomes their approach - you know get rid of the figleaf.

It is not impossible I guess, Joe Lieberman, Bernie Sanders, and Angus King all are/were supposedly independent. I guess if they just continued to be Republicans in their caucus and just became some kind of independent label the Republicans might leave them alone in their states.

[Valmy]

In one breath you said he was wrong and then right.

Ok I think he is right. We need to get those people who, for example, voted for Biden in the Nebraska second district but voted for the Republicans down ballot. We need to get those voters who voted for Trump but were Democratic voters previously in their lives until then and voted for legalizing drugs and increasing the minimum wage. There are all kinds of people we can get, and we need, in that other half of the electorate. But I don't think Eddie was saying we were going to get all of them.

His (and your) point that there is an equivalency between people wanting to defund the police (and completely ignoring what that meant in terms of reforming the role police have) and destruction of your democracy the GOP is now engaged in is astounding.

There is no equivalency. The GOP is dangerous and must be stopped. I want them defeated and discredited.

I am aware that several different explanations for defunding the police have been given, naturally I find that confusing. However in the one example I have close to home it sure looks like it is just that: dramatically slashing the police budget.

I am coming to the view that the real problem is people who want to appease the fascist or at least not upset them too much.

I want the fascists stopped and arrested if they do illegal things. I don't want these dangerous militias kidnapping governors and running wild.

Your country is broken.  Sucking up the the people who broke it is not the way.

Alright I guess I failed to see where anybody recommended we do that.

[Eddie Teach]

His (and your) point that there is an equivalency between people wanting to defund the police (and completely ignoring what that meant in terms of reforming the role police have) and destruction of your democracy the GOP is now engaged in is astounding.

I don't recall making this point.

[Razgovory]

I wonder when Donald Trump will start preparing the ground for his self pardon.  I imagine we'll start hearing about how a pardon does not indicate guilt in any shape or form.