US Election Week 2020

[Admiral Yi]

Guys, Yi is just sour the other tribe won the contest, give him a break.

Fuck you too.

[Valmy]

I'm much less aware of a time when the entire election was called with this many uncounted ballots left. 

In 2008 they called it for Barack Obama the second after the polls on the West Coast closed. I am pretty sure they had almost all the ballots in California, Washington, and Oregon to count it was just a foregone conclusion what that count would be.

This year, because of the uncertainty created by all the mail ballots, they have been much much more conservative than usual.

And they still might have fucked it up with Arizona 

[Sheilbh]

I'm well aware there have been times when networks have called states with incomplete results.  I'm also aware of times calls have been wrong. 

2000. When else has it happened?

I'm much less aware of a time when the entire election was called with this many uncounted ballots left.

Any election called on election night is based on incomplete results in a whole series of states - including massive ones like California that could, mathematically, flip.

I don't understand what your second and third sentence mean.  Please rephrase them if you want me to respond.

Your issue is the networks calling him "President-elect". I think that's normal once they've called an election even if votes are still being counted. I swear that just like now they typically refer to the victory speech as being by the "President-elect". So I looked for an example, and there's the one in 2008 when the reporter calls Obama President-elect based on the call, based on those incomplete results. So I think I'm right that it is normal.

I think why it seems abnormal isn't the use of President-elect, but that it's happening at a time when one of the candidates is disputing the result of the elections and saying they're being cheated out of victory.

My point is the networks should follow the custom of referring to a candidate as "President-elect" based on their assessment of objective reality (taking into account lots of uncounted votes) and should not depend on whether any of the candidates are disputing the results, unless the networks' assessment of reality is that there has been widespread fraud. I think it's one of those small conventions that matter - just like Biden receiving extra Secret Service protection on Wednesday (or should that have waited until it's mathematically impossible?), apparently, getting extra briefings and foreign leaders congratulating "President-elect Biden".

In fact I think it's dangerous to allow the candidates to shape that by refusing to accept results - I'd note that one of the only foreign leaders who haven't offered their congratulations is AMLO who of course tried to shape reality when he disputed those Mexican election results in 2006. He is waiting for all legal challenges to be complete.

In things that matter, Biden is down to 18713 in AZ.

He only needs Pennsylvania. The vast majority of those votes are, from what we understand, in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Georgia, Arizona and Nevada are nice-to-haves given Pennsylvania.

[Admiral Yi]

In 2008 they called it for Barack Obama the second after the polls on the West Coast closed. I am pretty sure they had almost all the ballots in California, Washington, and Oregon to count it was just a foregone conclusion what that count would be.

Then I concede the point.

[Valmy]

In 2008 they called it for Barack Obama the second after the polls on the West Coast closed. I am pretty sure they had almost all the ballots in California, Washington, and Oregon to count it was just a foregone conclusion what that count would be.

Then I concede the point.

In normal elections they can do that because they know where the votes are coming from. This year they do not which is why it took forever. But it always takes forever to count all the votes.

[viper37]

Is Beefsteak Charlie's still around??

NPR has started referring to "president elect Biden."  Not crazy about that.

uh. What should they call him then??

Presumptive president elect.

I think with Nevada and Pensylvania being a certainty, he is president elect, even if Georgia, North Carolina and Arizona go to Trump (highly unlikely for Arizona), he has won the race.

The final count will be determined, the 2 senators in Georgia will be decided in January, but as much as presidency goes, it is a done deal.

[viper37]

The mood now versus the mood Tuesday night is, uh, night and day.

I only live North of your country and I feel like a great weight has been lifted.  I can't imagine what it must be like for you.

Yeah, me too, I'm no longer a bitter and depressed old man. 

[Sheilbh]

The mood now versus the mood Tuesday night is, uh, night and day.

I only live North of your country and I feel like a great weight has been lifted.  I can't imagine what it must be like for you.

Yeah, me too, I'm no longer a bitter and depressed old man. 

[viper37]

  The election of the president hasn't even been held yet.  Hell, we haven't even seen the final results of the election of the electors who will elect the president.

I know that this is hard for foreigners to understand, but the US president is selected by the Electoral College, not the general populace.  A candidate becomes the president-elect in fact only when he has actually been elected.  Faux Snooze does not elect the president.

we do get that you have a weird system where a modern country needs nearly 3 months to transition power

However, faithless electors are nearly non existent and by convention, even if inaccurate, everyone always refers to the candidate with the most electors to be "president elect".  I think they even call him President right after the electoral college, even if, again, inaccurate.

[grumbler]

Congratulations America on finally ending this national nightmare. 

Though one wonders what took you so long to decide that you don't want someone who is obviously incompetent, corrupt, morally reprehensible, and a habitual liar to be president 

What one wonders is why so many Americans did NOT want such a despicable failure to leave office.  the margin of victory for Biden was astonishingly small.  Trump has done fuck all while demonstrating the maturity of a two-year-old but more Americans voted for him than for any Presidential candidate in history, bar Biden. 

[viper37]

The mood now versus the mood Tuesday night is, uh, night and day.

I only live North of your country and I feel like a great weight has been lifted.  I can't imagine what it must be like for you.

Yeah, me too, I'm no longer a bitter and depressed old man. 

[viper37]

Congratulations America on finally ending this national nightmare. 

Though one wonders what took you so long to decide that you don't want someone who is obviously incompetent, corrupt, morally reprehensible, and a habitual liar to be president 

What one wonders is why so many Americans did NOT want such a despicable failure to leave office.  the margin of victory for Biden was astonishingly small.  Trump has done fuck all while demonstrating the maturity of a two-year-old but more Americans voted for him than for any Presidential candidate in history, bar Biden. 

makes you wonder if anti-americans know something we don't

[crazy canuck]

Is Beefsteak Charlie's still around??

NPR has started referring to "president elect Biden."  Not crazy about that.

uh. What should they call him then??

Presumptive president elect.

Or for fuck sakes Yi, stop watching whatever nonsense it is that makes you think he is not the President Elect.  Hell even Fox News is calling him that.

  The election of the president hasn't even been held yet.  Hell, we haven't even seen the final results of the election of the electors who will elect the president.

I know that this is hard for foreigners to understand, but the US president is selected by the Electoral College, not the general populace.  A candidate becomes the president-elect in fact only when he has actually been elected.  Faux Snooze does not elect the president.

Cling to your outdated ways if you must.   

But more seriously, suggesting that the Electoral College can choose differently is not the wisest thing at this particular time.

[Grey Fox]

In 2008 they called it for Barack Obama the second after the polls on the West Coast closed. I am pretty sure they had almost all the ballots in California, Washington, and Oregon to count it was just a foregone conclusion what that count would be.

Then I concede the point.

You conceded but California takes weeks to count the votes every elections.

Votes can arrive until November 20th there.

[grumbler]

Just as an FYI (and not to make any judgement about news organizations using the term loosely) the term "President-elect" only became a concept under the US constitution when the 20th Amendment was passed in 1933.  The House committee that originated the amendment (which was designed to move the inauguration date to January from March) made it clear that the president-elect became so from the casting of the electoral college ballots, not from Congress's recognition of them.

The popular use of the term has obviously changed from the legal definition of the term, but it scarcely justifies the indignation of Yi noting that the popular usage is not correct.

I am sure that the concession of the defeated candidate is part of this, as well.