Personal bankruptcy in China

[Monoriu]

I've suspected this for a long time, but can't find anything on the topic.  Until recently I read some newspaper articles, and searched the Chinese version of wikipedia.  Finally my suspicions are confirmed.

There is no such thing.  If you owe money, the only ways out are to repay them (with interest), or die.

Link (in Chinese)

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%AD%E5%8D%8E%E4%BA%BA%E6%B0%91%E5%85%B1%E5%92%8C%E5%9B%BD%E4%BC%81%E4%B8%9A%E7%A0%B4%E4%BA%A7%E6%B3%95

[Neil]

And that's why small business and innovation do not exist in China, and the Chinese people will remain slaves forever.

[Monoriu]

From what I've read, a common strategy to escape debt is to literally disapper - move to a faraway place where brutal debt collectors can't find you.  That has two problems.  First, in China, your social benefits and many other rights are tied to the local government office.  For example, you can only receive education, see a doctor, or get a visa done in your own village.  You can't do these in any other place.  By moving to another place, you forfeit a lot of your rights.

Second, your family has to move with you.  In China, all loans basically have the implicit gurantee of family.  If you disappear, the collectors will go after your family. 

[Zanza]

We didn't have a personal bankruptcy until a decade or so ago either. But then, you could obviously not enforce it with criminal means and the most you could claim would still allow the debtor a dignified life. And his family was off-limits anyway unless they explicitly signed as guarantor. Nowadays, you are debt-free after some years of trying to pay off your debt (7 years or so?).

[Berkut]

If you disappear, the collectors will go after your family.

How? Do they have any actual legal obligation, or is this another of those herd mentality things where you guys just tolerate being treated like shit?

[Monoriu]

If you disappear, the collectors will go after your family.

How? Do they have any actual legal obligation, or is this another of those herd mentality things where you guys just tolerate being treated like shit?

No legal obligation, but they use criminal means to get your family to pay back.  Local police generally tolerate this, because the collectors are basically only pursuing money that is rightfully theirs.   

[saskganesh]

how corrupt are the police? do they take bribes much?

[Valmy]

No legal obligation, but they use criminal means to get your family to pay back.  Local police generally tolerate this, because the collectors are basically only pursuing money that is rightfully theirs.   

The cultural embrace of organized crime is a bit hard to understand.  China is sort of like a giant Sicily.

But I recall there was a similar accepted use of organized crime for certain things in Japan as well...though I do not know if it was for similar issues.

[Caliga]

I was wondering if this was going to be a farewell thread from Mono.

[Ed Anger]

I was wondering if this was going to be a farewell thread from Mono.

Dude likely has a 100 pickle jars full of pennies.

[Berkut]

If you disappear, the collectors will go after your family.

How? Do they have any actual legal obligation, or is this another of those herd mentality things where you guys just tolerate being treated like shit?

No legal obligation, but they use criminal means to get your family to pay back.  Local police generally tolerate this, because the collectors are basically only pursuing money that is rightfully theirs.  

Then the problem is the local police. Why not let the collectors pursue money that is rightfully theirs by accosting random people on the street?

Why would anyone voluntarily live in such a grossly broken society?

[Josquius]

I see a wonderful criminal opportunity in China with selling the identities of dead (unless we want to be very evil...) peasants to towny debters.
Anyone up for it?

[Savonarola]

I see a wonderful criminal opportunity in China with selling the identities of dead (unless we want to be very evil...) peasants to towny debters.
Anyone up for it?

Spellus is in (at least on the buying part):

[Valmy]

Then the problem is the local police. Why not let the collectors pursue money that is rightfully theirs by accosting random people on the street?

Why would anyone voluntarily live in such a grossly broken society?

Well I think it sounds like it works really well for those who have lots of cash.

But man I would hate to have to sell houses or cars or anything that requires lots of cash.  Nobody could buy unless they just happened to have that much money on hand.  The market must be comparatively small for the number of people whose incomes should put them in position to buy.

But, on the other hand, such low rates of defaulting make investing your money comparatively safe....but then such low rates of borrowing would make your returns super super tiny.  Actually didn't Mono once tell us the interest you make on savings accounts is basically nil?  That would explain it I guess.

[MadImmortalMan]

For example, you can only receive education, see a doctor, or get a visa done in your own village.  You can't do these in any other place.  By moving to another place, you forfeit a lot of your rights.

Wouldn't this mean you're essentially a landbound serf? I mean, surely you can get medical care or something elsewhere in China if you're traveling.