A different remedy than removal.

[FunkMonk]

Worship of the U.S. Constitution and it's ideals is necessary as a foundational mythology for American identity. We have little else in common with fellow Americans otherwise.

[Josquius]

Definitely true that the American constitution worship is bizzare.
Especially so when you consider how much it has changed throughout history.
Yet today it is regarded as something set in stone and not to be touched, with even set (wrong) interpretations held as part of this

There is nothing else that unites this country politically besides the Constitution. It is what created the country, at least as it currently exists. Not "worshiping" it would be bizarre in the context of the history of this country. It is so central to our political identity. Also it sounds like you are agreeing with somebody, Oex said it was NOT surprising it is so central. It is that it is so central yet at the same time so unimportant...which is bizarre.

And I don't get how it is regarded as something that cannot be touched. It has within itself a process for amending it.

If you need a fictionalised version of a 250 year old document to hold your country together, then maybe your country shouldn't be united.

I don't think thats the case though. Most countries get by just fine without the same constitution worship.

[crazy canuck]

Definitely true that the American constitution worship is bizzare.
Especially so when you consider how much it has changed throughout history.
Yet today it is regarded as something set in stone and not to be touched, with even set (wrong) interpretations held as part of this

There is nothing else that unites this country politically besides the Constitution. It is what created the country, at least as it currently exists. Not "worshiping" it would be bizarre in the context of the history of this country. It is so central to our political identity. Also it sounds like you are agreeing with somebody, Oex said it was NOT surprising it is so central. It is that it is so central yet at the same time so unimportant...which is bizarre.

And I don't get how it is regarded as something that cannot be touched. It has within itself a process for amending it.

If you need a fictionalised version of a 250 year old document to hold your country together, then maybe your country shouldn't be united.

I don't think thats the case though. Most countries get by just fine without the same constitution worship.

What else would bind people who came from other countries?

[Oexmelin]

Dershowitz taught criminal law, not constitutional law and certainly not separation of powers. His opinion counts . . . about as much as anyone else's.  Assuming your name doesn't end in von Bulow, not obvious why his opinion should carry any special authoritative weight.

I may have misunderstood, but hasn't Dershowitz has been named as Trump's defender in the impeachment case? I fear his opinion will gain value because it will necessarily be amplified by the conservative propaganda machine - and because a Constitution is never purely a legal document. It is one that tries to square the circle of the relationship between law, the political community, and authority. To exist, it must have a constraining power in the minds of citizens - not just constitutional lawyers. Trump's almost inevitable acquittal will be decided on the basis of the political - not the judicial, I am afraid. 

[MadImmortalMan]

Worship of the U.S. Constitution and it's ideals is necessary as a foundational mythology for American identity. We have little else in common with fellow Americans otherwise.

That's pretty much it.

We don't have a shared nationality, race or any of the usual stuff, so it's mostly about our shared values. It's a bit of a thinner foundation. Without the "holy words" in the DOI and the Constitution, we don't have much else.

[PDH]

The great thing about myths is that they are fundamentally true, even if they are not factually correct.

[The Minsky Moment]

Trump's almost inevitable acquittal will be decided on the basis of the political - not the judicial, I am afraid.

Of course it will - the case is being heard by a jury consisting entirely of elected politicians with no jury instructions as to what legal standard to follow.

[Oexmelin]

Thus, Dershowitz' opinion matters.

My point is: the American constitutional order is actively being eroded. To believe that things will return to normal, and crazy opinions will be discarded once such return to normal is achieved is flirting with danger.

[Razgovory]

I don't know what will happen after Trump is acquitted.  After the Mueller thing he immediately made and even bolder attempt to bring foreign interference into the election.  God knows what he will do next.  He knows he's above the law, he can do anything he wants.  After this the only limit will be his imagination.

[MadImmortalMan]

I remember when Clinton was acquitted. The GOP lost a ton of elections after that and even the 2000 presidential race, which Bush had every reason to win in a landslide like he did the Texas Governorship, was a squeaker. They really didn't anticipate how much it would hurt them.

[The Minsky Moment]

Thus, Dershowitz' opinion matters.

Seems like it matters even less ... if neither facts nor law matter, then any opinion offered on such things is immaterial.

[Malthus]

I remember when Clinton was acquitted. The GOP lost a ton of elections after that and even the 2000 presidential race, which Bush had every reason to win in a landslide like he did the Texas Governorship, was a squeaker. They really didn't anticipate how much it would hurt them.

I think it hurt them because a significant number of voters who would normally vote Republican thought that the prosecution attempt was partisan BS, even though everyone by that time knew that the facts he was accused of were true - he had in fact gotten a BJ from an intern and then lied about it, including lying under oath. They thought that because they just didn't think presidential infidelity and lies about the same were impeachment material - that this was just dirt-digging.

The issue in this case is this: will a significant number of voters who usually vote Democrat think that impeaching Trump is partisan BS, even knowing that the facts he is accused of are true - that he attempted to blackmail a foreign government to create fake dirt on a political enemy, then lied about it? It seems to me they are more likely in this case to be angry at the senators that vote for acquittal despite the President's obvious guilt, but then, who can say. 

[Josquius]

Definitely true that the American constitution worship is bizzare.
Especially so when you consider how much it has changed throughout history.
Yet today it is regarded as something set in stone and not to be touched, with even set (wrong) interpretations held as part of this

There is nothing else that unites this country politically besides the Constitution. It is what created the country, at least as it currently exists. Not "worshiping" it would be bizarre in the context of the history of this country. It is so central to our political identity. Also it sounds like you are agreeing with somebody, Oex said it was NOT surprising it is so central. It is that it is so central yet at the same time so unimportant...which is bizarre.

And I don't get how it is regarded as something that cannot be touched. It has within itself a process for amending it.

If you need a fictionalised version of a 250 year old document to hold your country together, then maybe your country shouldn't be united.

I don't think thats the case though. Most countries get by just fine without the same constitution worship.

What else would bind people who came from other countries?

Mutual self interest

[crazy canuck]

I hope there is more than that.

[grumbler]

Mutual self interest

Which means that nothing binds them together, given that perceptions of self-interest vary so widely that "mutual self-interest" is as perceptible as fairies and unicorns.

That's the problem with irrational thinking; it relies on made-up constructs.  At least the US constitution is real, even if perceptions of it are not always accurate.