Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Sheilbh]

Johnson announcing stricter rules. Also very rare to see this sort of "Prime Ministerial Statement".

You can leave your home for shopping for necessities - infrequently, one form of exercise, travelling for medical/caring needs and work - if it cannot be done from home.

And police will have power to enforce - it's now a public order issue.

So all non-essential shops, playgrounds, libraries etc are closed - no gatherings of more than two people.

Parks open for exercise only.

Will be reviewed in three weeks and relaxed if possible.

Very sad and disappointed it's come to this

Edit: And I am very sceptical of this being a police issue or of the coming surveillance measures which I think are profoundly troubling. Especially because, without surveillance, the police don't have capacity to really enforce this and it will be a drain on their resources (especially as they'll have staff self-isolating). We're effectively a temporary police state.

I also think being able to go out is really going to be key for the well-being and mental health of everyone - furious at the selfish people who I think have ruined that.

Edit: And I think there's been a slight slip of the mask on all this with the more authoritarian left I follow on Twitter which is worth watching.

Edit: Also this does feel like a very slight shift in how the police operate in this country (in theory) which will, hopefully revert at the end of this crisis.

[Tamas]

And the UK locks down

We still win the game of chicken because Spain and France locked down after 100-200 deaths not over 300 like us!

[OttoVonBismarck]

So I still have to ask, based on the current rate of death in most countries aside from Italy, is there a chance this is just kind of going to peter out and ultimately be a lot less serious than say, a seasonal flu? I've been pretty serious at batting down the Covid denialists I interact with, but the reality is we have a really high case rate now in the United States for example and a mortality rate that is not growing very quickly at all.

[Barrister]

So I still have to ask, based on the current rate of death in most countries aside from Italy, is there a chance this is just kind of going to peter out and ultimately be a lot less serious than say, a seasonal flu? I've been pretty serious at batting down the Covid denialists I interact with, but the reality is we have a really high case rate now in the United States for example and a mortality rate that is not growing very quickly at all.

You have 41,000 cases and 573 deaths, which is a little over the 1% mortality rate that's been predicted.

[Tamas]

So I still have to ask, based on the current rate of death in most countries aside from Italy, is there a chance this is just kind of going to peter out and ultimately be a lot less serious than say, a seasonal flu? I've been pretty serious at batting down the Covid denialists I interact with, but the reality is we have a really high case rate now in the United States for example and a mortality rate that is not growing very quickly at all.

For the upteenth time, it is not "just" about the death rate. That death rate is for the time when you still can care for everyone who needs ICU treatment. There are a whole lot of people who would die without intensive medical help, as they get serious pneumonia and their lungs slowly fill up with liquid and they suffocate.

There are also people who in case of a health system overload would need ICU treatment for any of the 120 other reasons but would not have a free bed.

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah, it's not about the death under perfect conditions, it's about the death rate if people are getting turned away from hospitals.

[Tamas]

Edit: And I am very sceptical of this being a police issue or of the coming surveillance measures which I think are profoundly troubling. Especially because, without surveillance, the police don't have capacity to really enforce this and it will be a drain on their resources (especially as they'll have staff self-isolating). We're effectively a temporary police state.

I also think being able to go out is really going to be key for the well-being and mental health of everyone - furious at the selfish people who I think have ruined that.

Edit: And I think there's been a slight slip of the mask on all this with the more authoritarian left I follow on Twitter which is worth watching.

Edit: Also this does feel like a very slight shift in how the police operate in this country (in theory) which will, hopefully revert at the end of this crisis.

I think we first need to see these things on paper let alone in action before we sound the alarm.

[HVC]

Ontario to announce enforced shutdown of non-essential businesses as of midnight tomorrow

But they're super vague about what is and isn't essential

[Josquius]

No mention of dog walking 😔


I guess what this means in the UK is less a strict all day curfew and rather the police will try to get people who are being obviously dumb back home.
After 10 years of the tories its not like we have the numbers for much more.

[Sheilbh]

I don't think there's any need for new legislation - it'll probably be some sweeping regulations on public order (the same used for hooliganism) and restrictions under public health powers.

We do know the coronavirus bill is profoundly authoritarian. I've no doubt the powers are possibly necessary but it's very much worth monitoring.

On the surveillance at the minute telecoms companies basically can't look at their traffic information unless compelled by a court order, the proposal in the UK and Germany (I believe) is that telecom companies would have the power to actually look at the traffic data to see where people are and monitor compliance with these rules.

All of this is the skeleton of a Chinese style surveillance state so I think it's worth sounding the alarm now, at any point any state actor steps over the boundaries and at the point this crisis is resolved - through vaccine, herd immunity, pharmaceuticals or whatever else.

[merithyn]

Besides taking out the trash, I've been out of the house 3 times since the quarantine began. One of the most eerie sights, besides the empty streets in what normally was a coastal town - is the fact that each and every time I've been on the street I have spotted an ambulance parked in front of some apartment block, lights on, EMTs rushing inside. I try not to think about the many tragic stories that are happening in those blocks so close to mine, but sometimes it's difficult.

Fuck you, SARS-CoV-2

Hang in there, friend. This can't last forever.

[Admiral Yi]

If people are not capable of acting responsibly on their own initiative, the state must coerce responsible behavior.

[Maladict]

Still no lockdown, but it's not ruled out either. You're not supposed to invite more than three people into your home, but kids should definitely be out playing together. Thus sayeth the PM.

[Sheilbh]

If people are not capable of acting responsibly on their own initiative, the state must coerce responsible behavior.

I agree-ish. It's why I'm mainly disappointed and angry with people for not using common sense.

But I still think the right approach was to try and trust people with our freedoms before this clampdown - and the only consolation of Johnson being in charge is that I genuinely think he is constitutionally a libertarian, get drunk and be merrie type Tory who will be very uncomfortable with this. If it was Theresa May, especially after her years in the Home Office, we'd have been in lockdown since that pangolin fucked a bat.

[Iormlund]

There's a preliminary story by italian researchers establishing a link between pollution and the spread the virus.  Seems like the virus would traval within microscopic particules of pollution to infect other people.  I have posted the link below, in italian, for the benefit of our resident italien members.

the results are very preliminary, but they would explain why Lombardia had such a rapid and very high infection rate, as the region is known to have a lot of these floating particles.

Link

Shit. I really hope that's not it or I'm fucked. If there is something in abundance at work it's soot. You can't weld shit without the stuff getting everywhere.