Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Valmy]

Even though I am vaccinated and regularly going out in public and shaking hands and doing all that stuff again, I am a little puzzled by the social etiquette on masks. Some places still require them and some places don't...and then you go in a place and some people have them on and others don't and I am just confused as to what I should do.

But I am just kind of wearing it now mostly just out of habit and tradition at this point.

[mongers]

Even though I am vaccinated and regularly going out in public and shaking hands and doing all that stuff again, I am a little puzzled by the social etiquette on masks. Some places still require them and some places don't...and then you go in a place and some people have them on and others don't and I am just confused as to what I should do.

But I am just kind of wearing it now mostly just out of habit and tradition at this point.

Why not spice it up a bit, try considering yourself as a secret Zorro? 

[Valmy]

Even though I am vaccinated and regularly going out in public and shaking hands and doing all that stuff again, I am a little puzzled by the social etiquette on masks. Some places still require them and some places don't...and then you go in a place and some people have them on and others don't and I am just confused as to what I should do.

But I am just kind of wearing it now mostly just out of habit and tradition at this point.

Why not spice it up a bit, try considering yourself as a secret Zorro? 

Because facemasks cover up the opposite part of the face as a Zorro mask

Also Zorro is a Californian so not something Texans should be doing.

[alfred russel]

For reasons I explained minutes after he lifted the mask mandate. Liberals should listen to me more.

Only now, after the CDC said it was ok, are mask mandates actually being lifted. The statewide mandates didn't really do much, it was a completely symbolic gesture by the governor to give him political capital after the ice storm debacle.

I really wanted to revisit the discussions I had with MM and Berkut to dunk hard on them regarding nothing bad happening in general and Paul Krugman's doom editorial not coming to pass in particular--about a month after the mandate was lifted and I tried the dunk they stuck to their guns saying to just wait as the effects could take time to show up. But I got distracted by getting married / going on a honeymoon.

[mongers]

For reasons I explained minutes after he lifted the mask mandate. Liberals should listen to me more.

Only now, after the CDC said it was ok, are mask mandates actually being lifted. The statewide mandates didn't really do much, it was a completely symbolic gesture by the governor to give him political capital after the ice storm debacle.

I really wanted to revisit the discussions I had with MM and Berkut to dunk hard on them regarding nothing bad happening in general and Paul Krugman's doom editorial not coming to pass in particular--about a month after the mandate was lifted and I tried the dunk they stuck to their guns saying to just wait as the effects could take time to show up. But I got distracted by getting married / going on a honeymoon.

Congratulations AR.

[Valmy]

For reasons I explained minutes after he lifted the mask mandate. Liberals should listen to me more.

Only now, after the CDC said it was ok, are mask mandates actually being lifted. The statewide mandates didn't really do much, it was a completely symbolic gesture by the governor to give him political capital after the ice storm debacle.

I really wanted to revisit the discussions I had with MM and Berkut to dunk hard on them regarding nothing bad happening in general and Paul Krugman's doom editorial not coming to pass in particular--about a month after the mandate was lifted and I tried the dunk they stuck to their guns saying to just wait as the effects could take time to show up. But I got distracted by getting married / going on a honeymoon.

I hate it when your personal life interferes with important priorities

Seriously though congrats Dorsey

[HVC]

Congratulations to you and condolences to your wife

[alfred russel]

Thanks guys.

For Sheilbh, regarding what is going on in developing countries, I just spent a couple weeks honeymooning in Uganda. I'll declare myself an expert in the covid response there based on my handful of observations and discussions with locals.

-Uganda has only had 362 official covid deaths, which is 9 per 1 million of the population. So on the surface it appears they've done a good job?
-The government closed schools for about a year. Considering the government has signs up encouraging people to keep their kids in school through at least the third grade and distance learning is not an option, that is a disaster.
-There is still a curfew in the country related to covid-19. I heard a number of people say that the curfew is more related to the political situation and covid-19 a convenient excuse. Our driver said that the curfew is not being enforced in places the president has the people's support but it is in places of opposition strength.
-The mask requirements are simply being exploited for bribes. Mask use is trivial. The last day we were in Kampala we did a day trip to white water raft in the Nile, and there was a corporate group doing team building that was also on the trip and included a bunch of dutch people. We had a 45 minute ride with these folks and were stopped at 3 police checkpoints for not using masks. The driver walked behind the bus to work things out with the police. Shared taxis/buses without mask use weren't being stopped.

Uganda is a country with a life expectancy lower than what puts you at risk for covid and a very young demographic profile. Yet it has real food insecurity. The majority of nights we were in the country we were the only people in the hotels in which we stayed. Our driver went without work for almost a year. Child labor is obviously a major problem, and has worsened in the past year. I really don't get it.     

[Sheilbh]

Isn't that a retrospective viewpoint? Because at the time of the Autumn lockdown we were facing a 2nd wave and were told we need a lockdown to curb it, then it was eased around the start of december, having apparently worked and we were going to have normal xmas.
Then it took off again because of the Kent variant in December and we had to lockdown for January onwards to prevent this new variant, which was significantly different from what happened in the Autumn.

We were the first to have a Kent variant wave in the world and yet in retrospect it now becomes only our 2nd wave, yet for France et al the Kent variant wave there is referred to as their 3rd wave.   

Maybe. I didn't think case numbers were low enough at the end of November to lift lockdown and I remember at the end of the November lockdown they were picking up again (obviously government with better data would have seen that was focused on Kent and the South-East - though I don't think they were aware why at that point.

I think I've been pretty inconsistent in how I used the terms but I definitely never thought that we were over the November/autumn wave.

Even though I am vaccinated and regularly going out in public and shaking hands and doing all that stuff again, I am a little puzzled by the social etiquette on masks. Some places still require them and some places don't...and then you go in a place and some people have them on and others don't and I am just confused as to what I should do.

The rules haven't changedin the UK so I'm still doing the same. They should, in theory - Indian variant permitting, be fully lifted in June. I think that makes sense because on current trend by the end of June all adults should have had at least one dose of the vaccine if they wanted one.

Incidentally it looks like the UK won't move to domestic vaccine passports. Apparently they've looked at Israel which had one, but have now pulled it because it's just not that helpful if you have a lot of vaccinated people - so I think there's a bit of concern at building this system only to cancel it shortly afterwards. But also vaccine take-up is higher than was anticipated and there are concerns around potential discriminatory impacts (against people with medical conditions, pregnant women etc). Checking in and testing for big events is apparently more likely to be built out.

[Valmy]

Yeah I was for vaccine passports theoretically to try to open up a little faster but the resistance was so fierce and the cost of implementation for only a small window of usefulness made me decide it was not a good idea.

[Legbiter]

The UK has announced zero daily Covid deaths within 28 days of a positive test for the first time since last March.

Tremendous.



https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57320320

[alfred russel]

I get that - but that's not what I mean. I think we will probably do better in the next pandemic if it hits in the next couple of decades because we all have a muscle memory of it.

So lets hypothetically say that a bird flu is currently making the jump to humans, and it has a similar infected fatality rate and infectiousness with covid-19.

My perspective is that we do worse than with covid-19 in western countries. There is going to be a significant portion of the population that refuses to return to countermeasures.

I'd have a different perspective if this scenario comes to pass in 5 years rather than right now.

[Sheilbh]

So lets hypothetically say that a bird flu is currently making the jump to humans, and it has a similar infected fatality rate and infectiousness with covid-19.

My perspective is that we do worse than with covid-19 in western countries. There is going to be a significant portion of the population that refuses to return to countermeasures.

I'd have a different perspective if this scenario comes to pass in 5 years rather than right now.

Yeah I totally disagree. I think we'll go back to normal after covid with all that clammy human-ness. But then once there are reports of a bird flu making the jump I think we'll be a bit like East Asia where lots of people start masking and hand-washing on day one, we'll move to doing more things outside and we'll be working from home more anyway as a society. I don't think any of those are ordered by government - just people reacting.

Things may be different in the US where everything is culture war/an expression of politics by other means. But I think the US is an outlier on that.

On the other hand I'm not sure states would be willing to return to countermeasures because of the cost of economic support. I think there'd be far stronger efforts on border controls and test and trace (as in East Asia) and I think states would be better placed to do that than in Q1 2020.

Edit: I also suspect some people may voluntarily mask whenever they get a cold just out of politeness.

[Barrister]

I get that - but that's not what I mean. I think we will probably do better in the next pandemic if it hits in the next couple of decades because we all have a muscle memory of it.

So lets hypothetically say that a bird flu is currently making the jump to humans, and it has a similar infected fatality rate and infectiousness with covid-19.

My perspective is that we do worse than with covid-19 in western countries. There is going to be a significant portion of the population that refuses to return to countermeasures.

I'd have a different perspective if this scenario comes to pass in 5 years rather than right now.

I think you're right actually - in terms of the timing.  If a new infections influenza strikes RIGHT NOW with broadly similar lethality as Covid-19, then yes I think a lot of people will go "oh HELL no!" to another 18 months of restrictions.

But in just a few years I think the Covid-19 restrictions will be seen as largely successful and popular.

[Barrister]

This is just almost amazing.  Daily new infection rate.  Today is the 218 dot.  Look how far we've come from just a few weeks ago (the 2400 dot).

Government also announced dates for second shots.  I can try to book mine starting June 14.