Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Threviel]

The head of the Swedish health ministry has been caught Christmas vacationing in the Canary Islands.

One wonders how these individuals think when they make decisions.

[celedhring]

. I don't think the many policy and organizational failures during the pandemic can be laid at his feet, but he certainly didn't rise to the occasion.

Why not?

Even if day to day operations are devolved, dealing with a pandemic fell squarely on his lap.

Probably should have said "solely". There is enough blame to go around, is what I mean. Anyway, there was a larger issue of the Spanish Health Ministry being essentially an empty cocoon (because of devolution) that was completely unable to deal with this situation. He could've been Health Bismark and he'd still have to deal with a pitiful organization.

The new state budget is supposed to significantly enlarge the Health Ministry, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Iormlund]

Probably should have said "solely". There is enough blame to go around, is what I mean. Anyway, there was a larger issue of the Spanish Health Ministry being essentially an empty cocoon (because of devolution) that was completely unable to deal with this situation. He could've been Health Bismark and he'd still have to deal with a pitiful organization.

Sorry but no. There was a LOT he should have done and didn't:

-The first lockdown was delayed for political reasons.
-Responsibility was shifted to regional governments yet no clear legal mechanism to enable extraordinary measures was provided.
-No action was taken when those regional governments where failing to act (eg. breakouts in la Franja & Lleida) or when Track and Trace resources were overwhelmed (basically everywhere).
-Not only was no standardized information system, the ministry actively obscured data.
-Almost a year has passed, and we still lack a comprehensive traveler quarantine procedure.

All of these were conscious decisions undertaken because politics, not healthcare, is the priority. As a result tens of thousands have died. He deserves to rot in prison. Though I will give you that he should not be alone there.

[celedhring]

All of these were conscious decisions undertaken because politics, not healthcare, is the priority. As a result tens of thousands have died. He deserves to rot in prison. Though I will give you that he should not be alone there.

I'd hang him, imho.

[Eddie Teach]

Being bad at your job isn't a crime.

[Sheilbh]

The German health minister strange gained a lot of approval, despite first overestimating our preparedness before the first wave and then not doing enough to prepare us for a second wave and now not being able to build up the vaccination supply and infrastructure fast...

The English health minister (a bit like Johnson) had a popularity boost at the start but that's long-gone now. I think it's very unlikely he keeps his job in the next re-shuffle. There's been too many fuck-ups - especially the track and trace system.

What must be frustrating for him is that in recent months he's been more right than not. He was advocating for a circuit breaker lockdown and wanted stricter measures this winter. I remember reading a piece in September/October that basically said everyone in the cabinet thought he was a joke living in cloud cuckoo land because he thought there would be vaccines (which is slightly terrifying because it suggests the rest of the cabinet didn't read the news about the various vaccines in development ) while the rest of the cabinet basically thought there'd be no vaccine so we'd have to live with it like Sweden or Switzerland. Hancock was right but it's made no difference to his popularity.

[Tamas]

The German health minister strange gained a lot of approval, despite first overestimating our preparedness before the first wave and then not doing enough to prepare us for a second wave and now not being able to build up the vaccination supply and infrastructure fast...

The English health minister (a bit like Johnson) had a popularity boost at the start but that's long-gone now. I think it's very unlikely he keeps his job in the next re-shuffle. There's been too many fuck-ups - especially the track and trace system.

What must be frustrating for him is that in recent months he's been more right than not. He was advocating for a circuit breaker lockdown and wanted stricter measures this winter. I remember reading a piece in September/October that basically said everyone in the cabinet thought he was a joke living in cloud cuckoo land because he thought there would be vaccines (which is slightly terrifying because it suggests the rest of the cabinet didn't read the news about the various vaccines in development ) while the rest of the cabinet basically thought there'd be no vaccine so we'd have to live with it like Sweden or Switzerland. Hancock was right but it's made no difference to his popularity.

If Johnson stays than Hancock may get to stay as well because it is as important to make Johnson seem like the best of the bunch as before.

[Iormlund]

Being bad at your job isn't a crime.

If I knowingly bypass safety requirements and someone dies I could be held criminally responsible. So would my boss.

Why does an engineer have to face the consequences of his actions but not a minister?

[celedhring]

Iormlund, the socdems have been a disaster managing this, but you honestly remind me of the Intereconomía loons that wanted to throw Zapatero in jail because of the recession (using the same argument).

And we've been bad, but not magnitudes worse than nearly everyone else in the west.

[Eddie Teach]

Being bad at your job isn't a crime.

If I knowingly bypass safety requirements and someone dies I could be held criminally responsible. So would my boss.

Why does an engineer have to face the consequences of his actions but not a minister?

If the minister breaks laws, he may face prosecution. If he simply performs poorly, he just needs to be canned.

[Iormlund]

Iormlund, the socdems have been a disaster managing this, but you honestly remind me of the Intereconomía loons that wanted to throw Zapatero in jail because of the recession (using the same argument).

Except I've never voted right in my whole life. Not once in almost 25 years.

It's far simpler than that. I'm a cynic. Which is also why I didn't believe the "it's just the flu" bullshit and was prepared for lockdown a couple weeks before everyone went batshit crazy at the supermarket.

And we've been bad, but not magnitudes worse than nearly everyone else in the west.

As far as I'm concerned mediocrity is not a valid excuse. Mostly because -- again -- they haven't even tried in the first place. At least Boris was transparent from the start: "hey guys, say goodbye to your old folks, we're going for herd immunity".

[celedhring]

As far as I'm concerned mediocrity is not a valid excuse. Mostly because -- again -- they haven't even tried in the first place. At least Boris was transparent from the start: "hey guys, say goodbye to your old folks, we're going for herd immunity".

It's not a reason for throwing people in jail either. Just vote them out next time.

Of course, the tragedy of it all is that probably means a government with Vox.

[DGuller]

Being bad at your job isn't a crime.

Depends on your job.  In some professions being bad enough at your job can be classified as criminal negligence, literally.

[The Brain]

The German health minister strange gained a lot of approval, despite first overestimating our preparedness before the first wave and then not doing enough to prepare us for a second wave and now not being able to build up the vaccination supply and infrastructure fast...

The English health minister (a bit like Johnson) had a popularity boost at the start but that's long-gone now. I think it's very unlikely he keeps his job in the next re-shuffle. There's been too many fuck-ups - especially the track and trace system.

What must be frustrating for him is that in recent months he's been more right than not. He was advocating for a circuit breaker lockdown and wanted stricter measures this winter. I remember reading a piece in September/October that basically said everyone in the cabinet thought he was a joke living in cloud cuckoo land because he thought there would be vaccines (which is slightly terrifying because it suggests the rest of the cabinet didn't read the news about the various vaccines in development ) while the rest of the cabinet basically thought there'd be no vaccine so we'd have to live with it like Sweden or Switzerland. Hancock was right but it's made no difference to his popularity.

Heaven forbid the UK kept its deaths per million as low as in Sweden.

[Sheilbh]

Heaven forbid the UK kept its deaths per million as low as in Sweden.

I was going to add "without Swedish healthcare or living conditions" to be clear - I should have, soz.