Star Wars Megathread

[Syt]

Screenplay credits are JJA, and Chris Terrio, who also wrote Superman v Batman, Justice League, and Argo (one of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong ....)

Story credit is, according to IMDB:

Derek Connolly   ...   (story by) &
Colin Trevorrow   ...   (story by) and
Chris Terrio   ...   (story by) &
J.J. Abrams   ...   (story by)

Conolly's and Trevorrow's credits include Detective Pikachu, Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom, Jurassic World.

[Admiral Yi]

Screenplay credits are JJA, and Chris Terrio, who also wrote Superman v Batman, Justice League, and Argo (one of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong ....)

Story credit is, according to IMDB:

Derek Connolly   ...   (story by) &
Colin Trevorrow   ...   (story by) and
Chris Terrio   ...   (story by) &
J.J. Abrams   ...   (story by)

Conolly's and Trevorrow's credits include Detective Pikachu, Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom, Jurassic World.

Looks like a lot of experience in extending franchises past their sell by date.

[The Minsky Moment]

The OT didn't have much of a story.  Plucky rebels take on evil empire in Movie 1, then get beat back in Movie 2, then re-run their Movie 1 exploits in movie 3, only this time it sticks.

The prequel triology on the other hand had a pretty good story to tell - the tragic corruption of a flawed hero, the undermining of a democracy from within, the fall of an ancient spiritual order, plots and counterplots.  Problem is the delivery is awful - leaden dialogue, wooden acting, clumsy direction.

Between the two I'll take the shakier story.

[celedhring]

OK, so here is what I don't get.

WHO is in charge of creating the actual story? I mean, JJ Abrams is a director. He is good at directing (at least theoretically). There is no reason to suppose he has the kind of imagination necessary to craft a good story.

I don't see why they would not go out, for something like this, and hire someone proven to be good at crafting great stories (or several someones for that matter), pay them a bunch of money, and say "Give me a three movie arc about the next generation of the SW story". Hell, have ten people do it for half a million each, and pick the best one.

We saw from GOT that just because people are good at turning a great story into great cinema, does not by any means mean that they are any good at coming up with the story to begin with.

There's the Lucasfilm Story Group but I'm not completely sure if they are doing that. I've always been confused about their exact role, besides being canon curators.

That said, do we really have a true precedent for this? Most movie sagas telling a somewhat continuous story have always been either adaptations of preexisting material (LOTR, Potter, even Marvel to a degree...), or spawned from a really successful first film and given to the same filmmakers that made that film (Pirates of the Caribbean, Matrix). I can't think of any other case where a company decided they were going to make 3 connected films, not adapting an existing story, and at the same time not use the same creative team for all three.

[Barrister]

The OT didn't have much of a story.  Plucky rebels take on evil empire in Movie 1, then get beat back in Movie 2, then re-run their Movie 1 exploits in movie 3, only this time it sticks.

The prequel triology on the other hand had a pretty good story to tell - the tragic corruption of a flawed hero, the undermining of a democracy from within, the fall of an ancient spiritual order, plots and counterplots.  Problem is the delivery is awful - leaden dialogue, wooden acting, clumsy direction.

Between the two I'll take the shakier story.

Any time you try to summarize three movies worth of plot into one line it makes it seem silly.  The "plot" of the OT is the Campbellian Hero's Journey, both over the initial movie, and again over the trilogy.

The boys were quite taken with TROS, and we've embarked on rewatching the whole 9 part series, starting at episode 1 (we're mid-way through 2 now).  You've certainly hit on the highs and lows of the prequels: the plot is much more coherent, with a more interesting story to tell.  But the dialogue is stiff and clunky, and the CGI is showing its age far more than the practical effects of the much earlier original trilogy.

I'm not sure which I would say I prefer at this point however.  The new movies have much better dialogue and even acting, and the more practical effects look great.  But story is such a big part of a movie...

[viper37]

First of all, Force Ghosts are really a Jedi thing.  No idea if a Sith has ever come back in that way.

Kotor 1&2 shows they can.  There were also some (now non canon) comics about the "resurected" Emperor (his ghost) trying to push Luke to the Dark Side.

That's why 'Palpatine's' goals seem so nebulous and ever-changing.  First he wants Kylo Ren to kill Rey - so that he fully becomes Sith (ahd the All Sith can be one with him).  Then he wants Rey to kill 'Palpatine' - so the All Sith can be one with Rey.  And finally, when both Rey and Kylo reject him, it is only after he drains their life force that Palpatine assume a more physical form, and only then that he can start to manipulate the force himself.

It's still too deus ex machina to me.  He is clearly flesh&blood to begin with, albeit attached to some kind of machine to maintain his life.

He wants Rey to kill him the same way he wanted Luke to do it, so they would turn to the Dark Side trying to do it.  He has no intention of letting himself be killed-again, like he did on the Death Star.  Remember when he told Luke to strike him?  He knew Vader would intervene.  And he thought, in the end, only one of them would survive and join him as an apprentice.  That was exactly the same with Kylo and Rey.[/quote]

[viper37]

The Rebels, fresh with the momentum of destroying the Empire's secret weapon and killing the top imperial minister, hole up in an remote, indefensible and logistically nightmarish ice planet where they are discovered through the simple expedient of sending a cheap probe.

Their old base was now discovered and the Imperials would quickly send a massive fleet to anihilate them.  They needed to move out of sight, so they could regroup.  The Alliance strengght is in ambush battles, not open warfare against an ennemy superior in numbers and technical resources.
Also, Hoth was seen as great because it is very remote.  They were discovered not by a simple cheap probe, but because Darth Vader search the Force and was alert at the time the probe "malfunctionned". Otherwise, the empire officers would have simply dismissed it as local fauna interfering with the probe, as it happens.

Rather than simply nuking the pathetic base from orbit using their vast fleet, the Empire implements a pointlessly complex ground assault using the worst designed AFVs in the history of any known universe, thus allowing sufficient time for the copiously plot armored protagonists to escape.

It is said in the movie there is a planetary shield preventing bombardment.
If WWII happenned today, once achieveing air superiority, the Russians would probably drop a bunker-buster bomb over Hitler's bunker rather than risk many troops in a grinding land battle.

The movie then splits into two plots: a getaway gone wrong with most of the main characters while the lead character (and audience) suffers through barrages of grammatically mangled koans delivered by a wrinkled muppet with a chronic throat condition.

That's the charm of the movie

The interlude proves to be mere time wasting as lead character belatedly rushes away to save the others, negating the purpose of the training that took up most of the previous hour.

Hot headed heroes aren't exactly a new thing.   Even by the 70's standard.

After battling the Black Codpieced Bad Guy in a series of sets that --  like the Death Star in the original film --  appear like they were designed by a 10 year old that got bored with his erector set and quit halfway through, we get the big reveal: in a vast galaxy of quadrillions of people it just so coincidentally happens that hero and villain are related!  Then as our hero is on the verge of perishing he is saved by space ghosts to rejoin a vast mobile rebel armada . . . the existence of which makes pointless the whole Hoth base business that started things off.

He used the Force to contact his (then unknown) sister.  Nothing magical about it!... err, wait, that didn't sound right

[viper37]

I find the notion that there was no direction for the trilogy pretty hard to believe, at least for the main character arcs. Lucas kinda came up with the OT after the first one became a huge success, even swerving in stuff like Leia-Luke-Vader's relationship (retroactive incest, yay!) but he never thought he'd make more than one which was clearly not the case here.

I find it more likely that they have been switching gears after every movie which lead to the current mess. I suppose eventually we'll know what went down.

Something I'd love to know is Lucas' original plans for the new trilogy, the prequels are exemplars of terrible filmmaking and screewriting, but at least there's a purpose to them, and tell a story that leads up to the OT. Then again I remember this bit in the press (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfdltj1U8AEw2lN.jpg) and maybe we didn't lose that much

https://collider.com/rise-of-skywalker-palpatine-was-jj-abrams-idea-not-colin-trevorrow/

"Bringing back the Emperor was an idea JJ brought to the table when he came on board," Trevorrow says. "It's honestly something I never considered. I commend him for it. This was a tough story to unlock, and he found the key."

[viper37]

Isn't the new Clone Wars season also coming this year?

February 17 apparently.

ooohhhh! Not gonna miss that!

[viper37]

WHO is in charge of creating the actual story? I mean, JJ Abrams is a director. He is good at directing (at least theoretically). There is no reason to suppose he has the kind of imagination necessary to craft a good story.

Ultimately, Kathleen Kennedy is in charge of hiring everyone and has the last word on the story.JJ Abrams was executive director for the 2nd one too, I believe, although it was really hands off.He was supposed to come back for #3 in a similar role.
He&Disney hired someone for the script of #1 and #3 (well, some people, actually).
Beside Kennedy, he's the one who has the last word on the script for #1 and #3.
#2 was mostly Johnson by himself.

But they really work in teams, where they discuss ideas.  The scripters, the directors and sometimes the executive director (Abrams).

When Abrams took over, he had talks with Johnson and with Trevorrow, apparently.

I don't see why they would not go out, for something like this, and hire someone proven to be good at crafting great stories (or several someones for that matter), pay them a bunch of money, and say "Give me a three movie arc about the next generation of the SW story". Hell, have ten people do it for half a million each, and pick the best one.

That would have been the wisest decision.  Hire one person to write the 3 movies.  then shoot them all at the same time and release one per year, like The Lord of the Rings.

[Barrister]

Kathleen Kennedy (who was hired by Lucas, not Disney) is 66, and it's unclear whether she's going to stick around.  Robert Iger may want his own person in charge of Disney's second most popular franchise.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-uncertainty-extends-kathleen-kennedys-disney-future-1256357

[Valmy]

The OT didn't have much of a story.  Plucky rebels take on evil empire in Movie 1, then get beat back in Movie 2, then re-run their Movie 1 exploits in movie 3, only this time it sticks.

The OT had a simple story, but it was well told at least for the first two. I mean there is no reason why plucky rebels take on evil empire cannot be a good story or be "much of a story". Truly great fiction has been written with less of a story, and that does not even include all the space wizard or classic hero's journey stuff. The third one was not great overall (though it had some good set pieces), though I suppose could have been good if it had been executed better. It is kind of amazing despite having a sci fi universe with magical wizards they had to retell blowing up a giant planet destroying base not once or twice but three times. There are just no other stories that can be told I guess.

[ulmont]

Any time you try to summarize three movies worth of plot into one line it makes it seem silly.  The "plot" of the OT is the Campbellian Hero's Journey, both over the initial movie, and again over the trilogy.

I think you misspelled "The Hidden Fortress."

[Barrister]

Any time you try to summarize three movies worth of plot into one line it makes it seem silly.  The "plot" of the OT is the Campbellian Hero's Journey, both over the initial movie, and again over the trilogy.

I think you misspelled "The Hidden Fortress."

I love that in this day and age it's possible to effortlessly stream so many modern movies.

I hate that in this modern day and age there is no way I can think of to watch The Hidden Fortress, which I have never seen.  In fact I think the only Kurosawa movie I've ever seen was Ran (which was very good, and obviously inspired a scene in TLJ, to come full circle).

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Fortress-English-Subtitled/dp/B004CXGZSW

Amazon has Hidden Fortress.

Greatest horse chase scene EVAH