Midway: Reality and Myth

[alfred russel]

Because of Midway's importance-the island was within bomber range of Pearl Harbor-

That is really not true in any meaningful sense.

It is in one meaningful sense. It was within range of US bombers. It was not within range of Japanese bombers, who never really had anything like an equivalent long range bomber capability.

If Japan had taken Midway, Japan wouldn't have been useful to launch air raids on Pearl Harbor, but it would have been neutralized by US bombers.

The Pacific War in WWII is unfortunate to study from the perspective that there is no winning play for Japan. They were badly outnumbered and outclassed in terms of quality. Their brief advantage at the beginning of the war had no hope of being converted into a win - the territory to conquer was impossibly large.

[The Brain]

You're thinking of katmai.

[Berkut]

Because of Midway's importance-the island was within bomber range of Pearl Harbor-

That is really not true in any meaningful sense.

It is in one meaningful sense. It was within range of US bombers. It was not within range of Japanese bombers, who never really had anything like an equivalent long range bomber capability.

If Japan had taken Midway, Japan wouldn't have been useful to launch air raids on Pearl Harbor, but it would have been neutralized by US bombers.

The Pacific War in WWII is unfortunate to study from the perspective that there is no winning play for Japan. They were badly outnumbered and outclassed in terms of quality. Their brief advantage at the beginning of the war had no hope of being converted into a win - the territory to conquer was impossibly large.

It was *technically* in range of Japanese bombers, in that they could take off and fly to Hawaii, and drop their (reduced) bomb load and return, as long as they didn't maneuver, or go above the most efficient cruising speed.

I was involved in a discussion with someone about this, and they said "Well, Midway was in range of Hawaii from Betty bombers, which were one of the most successful bombers designs of the war, so once they get an airfield there, Hawaii was compromised".

There is so much wrong with this statement, mixed with a tiny bit of truth. But it SOUNDS reasonable, right? At least to anyone who doesn't know much about the war and air power in the Pacific.

Hell, even if the Japanese had B-17s, having Midway would not be useful to neutralize Hawaii. What could Midway support? 1 airstrip, and the US built another by expanding the second atoll. So for Japan, 1 airbase.

Hawaii at that time probably had what - 20? You could basically station an infinite number of planes on Hawaii, and maybe, at best, Midway could support 20-30 medium/heavy bombers. I think at the time of the battle the US crammed about 100 planes there (which included IIRC a dozen or twenty B-17s, the rest being single engined bombers, fighters, or seaplanes).

It just doesn't make any sense, even if you ignore that Japan could never have gotten the bombers there, or maintained an airfield, or supplied it. Even if they magically did all of those things....it would allow them to barely harass Hawaii, while the American could just plaster the island at will.

[dps]

And beyond all that, level bombers aren't really a very good anti-ship weapon, though that wasn't apparent at the time. 

[alfred russel]

Even if bettys could theoretically hit ph they would be outside the range of fighter escort, which is just another fatal flaw in the plan. B17s could fend for themselves, bettys not so much.

[Berkut]

And beyond all that, level bombers aren't really a very good anti-ship weapon, though that wasn't apparent at the time. 

Uhhh, well, actually the Betty was a damn fine anti-ship weapon, as the Prince of Wales and Warspite found out.

[Berkut]

Even if bettys could theoretically hit ph they would be outside the range of fighter escort, which is just another fatal flaw in the plan. B17s could fend for themselves, bettys not so much.

Yeah, the entire idea of Midway as a stepping stone to Hawaii is ludicrous on about 30 different levels.

[dps]

And beyond all that, level bombers aren't really a very good anti-ship weapon, though that wasn't apparent at the time. 

Uhhh, well, actually the Betty was a damn fine anti-ship weapon, as the Prince of Wales and Warspite found out.

I assume that you mean the Repulse;  the Warspite served in the Atlantic.  And yes, the PoW and the Repulse were sunk by Bettys (and Nells) but the planes were torpedo bombing, not level bombing.  Pearl Harbor wasn't really suited for torpedo bombers--the Kates that dropped torpedoes on 7 Dec 41 were carrying specially modified torpedoes.

[grumbler]

It is 1300 miles from Midway to Pearl Harbor.   Not even the B-17 could carry a useful load over that range.  A Betty would have to have a torpedo with a range of 500 nm to torpedo ships in Pearl from Midway.

By comparison, London to Berlin is 579 air miles.

[Berkut]

And beyond all that, level bombers aren't really a very good anti-ship weapon, though that wasn't apparent at the time. 

Uhhh, well, actually the Betty was a damn fine anti-ship weapon, as the Prince of Wales and Warspite found out.

I assume that you mean the Repulse;  the Warspite served in the Atlantic.  And yes, the PoW and the Repulse were sunk by Bettys (and Nells) but the planes were torpedo bombing, not level bombing.  Pearl Harbor wasn't really suited for torpedo bombers--the Kates that dropped torpedoes on 7 Dec 41 were carrying specially modified torpedoes.

I thought you were saying they would not be good anti-ship weapons patrolling around Midway, rather than attacking PH itself.

They would probably be fine doing that - not that they would GET to do that, since and Japanese base at Midway would be pulverized.

[mongers]

It's not widely know but the full local name of the island translated mean 'Midway To Nowhere'