Crusader Kings III

[Razgovory]

Meh, not much different from a Catholic observing all the feast days of saints 

Carrying on some superstition out of tradition and continuity is one thing, inventing one based on some ancient stuff is another

But as far as reconstructionist pagan religions and their relation to this era: well there is a reason they are reconstructionist and not revivalist. With the Norse Gods we have lots of their stories from the Icelandic epic poems and all that but we know very little about how the religion was actually practiced. And for the Celtic religion the situation is far worse.

And if I wanted to sacrifice a bull to Zeus or read the augurs of some entrails would anybody actually know how? And if not aren't we basically inventing an entirely new religion? That has nothing to do with the CK3 era, so what relevance does somebody being reconstructionist have to do with the game?

It made kind of a bit of sense to have Hellenism in CK2 (by CK2 standards where even a rumor of something happening is good enough to have in the game) since in the 769 starting date there were a few holdouts for the Hellenistic faith still left in isolated areas but by the 9th century they were all gone.

Not only do they not know how to sacrifice a bull, they wouldn't want to do so.  There is a reason why people converted away from these religions.  They were crap.

[Legbiter]

But as far as reconstructionist pagan religions and their relation to this era: well there is a reason they are reconstructionist and not revivalist. With the Norse Gods we have lots of their stories from the Icelandic epic poems and all that but we know very little about how the religion was actually practiced. And for the Celtic religion the situation is far worse.

Yeah what's most shocking about medieval Icelandic literature is how much of it there is compared to our neighbors. The Icelandic medieval Old Norse corpus is several orders of magnitude greater than the entire output of the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes put together during the same period. Only the Francian medieval output matches us. Just imagine how many Marvel characters are missing.

The other miracle is that the Christian scribes writing our Sagas like Snorri Sturluson are not at all hung up about their pagan forefathers a couple of generations ago, but take pains to describe how honorable they were even if pagan. I just finished Eyrbyggja Saga a couple months back and I'm in awe of how subtle it is and how you can view what happens both ways.

[Threviel]

Also hellenism had been dead, buried and forgotten for 500-600 years by 1066, norse religion was still around. To have hellenism in game would be stupid, unlike a lot of other seemingly silly in game stuff (Roman empire, judaism, whatever) absolutely no-one tried to revive it in medieval times.

[garbon]

And if I wanted to sacrifice a bull to Zeus or read the augurs of some entrails would anybody actually know how? And if not aren't we basically inventing an entirely new religion? That has nothing to do with the CK3 era, so what relevance does somebody being reconstructionist have to do with the game?

It made kind of a bit of sense to have Hellenism in CK2 (by CK2 standards where even a rumor of something happening is good enough to have in the game) since in the 769 starting date there were a few holdouts for the Hellenistic faith still left in isolated areas but by the 9th century they were all gone.

Yeah that was my thought around not sure why being a believer in a reconstructed religion is relevant to discussing how the religion should be represented in CK3. In fairness that poster did say they don't want Paradox to devote any additonal time toward Hellenism as time would be better spent on historical religions of the time period.

[Josquius]

But as far as reconstructionist pagan religions and their relation to this era: well there is a reason they are reconstructionist and not revivalist. With the Norse Gods we have lots of their stories from the Icelandic epic poems and all that but we know very little about how the religion was actually practiced. And for the Celtic religion the situation is far worse.

Yeah what's most shocking about medieval Icelandic literature is how much of it there is compared to our neighbors. The Icelandic medieval Old Norse corpus is several orders of magnitude greater than the entire output of the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes put together during the same period. Only the Francian medieval output matches us. Just imagine how many Marvel characters are missing.

The other miracle is that the Christian scribes writing our Sagas like Snorri Sturluson are not at all hung up about their pagan forefathers a couple of generations ago, but take pains to describe how honorable they were even if pagan. I just finished Eyrbyggja Saga a couple months back and I'm in awe of how subtle it is and how you can view what happens both ways.

They did fuck up their interpretation of the religion though. Turning Loki into a straight (or rather omnisexual) devil for instance

[Razgovory]

Mythology isn't religion.

[Valmy]

But as far as reconstructionist pagan religions and their relation to this era: well there is a reason they are reconstructionist and not revivalist. With the Norse Gods we have lots of their stories from the Icelandic epic poems and all that but we know very little about how the religion was actually practiced. And for the Celtic religion the situation is far worse.

Yeah what's most shocking about medieval Icelandic literature is how much of it there is compared to our neighbors. The Icelandic medieval Old Norse corpus is several orders of magnitude greater than the entire output of the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes put together during the same period. Only the Francian medieval output matches us. Just imagine how many Marvel characters are missing.

The other miracle is that the Christian scribes writing our Sagas like Snorri Sturluson are not at all hung up about their pagan forefathers a couple of generations ago, but take pains to describe how honorable they were even if pagan. I just finished Eyrbyggja Saga a couple months back and I'm in awe of how subtle it is and how you can view what happens both ways.

They did fuck up their interpretation of the religion though. Turning Loki into a straight (or rather omnisexual) devil for instance

Nobody is perfect. Besides there exists no orthodox form of the Eddas for them to fuck up.

And as I said the actual form of the religion is very little known. Just because we know a few stories about Odin or sayings attributed to him doesn't do us any good trying to practice the religion. Kind of like if all traces of Judaism and Christianity disappeared and all we had was the Torah and the Gospels. Reconstructing those religions from just those would not resemble the historical religions much at all.

[crazy canuck]

Meh, not much different from a Catholic observing all the feast days of saints 

Carrying on some superstition out of tradition and continuity is one thing, inventing one based on some ancient stuff is another

Dont be too hard on Christianity.   

Christianity can take it.

Maybe, but as Grumbler noted, at least in North America, there seems to be a turn back to the old God.

[Jacob]

Looks like patch 1.5 will have gay marriage implemented as an option.

[garbon]

Looks like patch 1.5 will have gay marriage implemented as an option.

I noticed in their screenshot they showed a heterosexual in a gay marriage

[The Brain]

Looks like patch 1.5 will have gay marriage implemented as an option.

I noticed in their screenshot they showed a heterosexual in a gay marriage

Most aristocratic/royal marriages in the Middle Ages were arranged marriages.

[garbon]

Oh I see, forced gay marriages.

[The Brain]

They're only an option.

[Josephus]

Looks like patch 1.5 will have gay marriage implemented as an option.

Because those were all the rage back then

[Jacob]

Looks like patch 1.5 will have gay marriage implemented as an option.

Because those were all the rage back then

There's a lot of fantasy and what-if in CK3 to begin with.

You can have Hellenistic Matriarchal Vikings ruling Tibet. Gay marriage isn't really that much of a stretch. And if you don't care for it, just leave the toggle switched off.