Extinction Rebellion Protests

[dps]

I don't see this form of protest as that much different than strikes or occupying lunch counters.

Are you making the argument that people riding the tube are engaged in a unjust and illegal act, analogous to refusing blacks service at a lunch counter[/I]?

Prior to 1964, it was quite legal in parts of the US to refuse blacks service at lunch counters. 

[Admiral Yi]

Fine.  Remover the illegal act.

[Razgovory]

Fine.  Remover the illegal act.

A white man wishing to eat at a lunch counter but cannot do so because a black man is sitting in the spot as part of a protest is not committing an unjust act.  He is inconvenienced by the protest, just as people on the subways are inconvenienced.

So no, I'm not making the argument that tube-riders are engaged in unjust or illegal acts.

[Admiral Yi]

If someone checked out a book from the library that you wanted to read, you would be inconvenienced.  If he tied you up with bungee cords and duct tape and left you in the basement, you would also be inconvenienced.  Those two are also similar in that regard.

[dps]

If someone checked out a book from the library that you wanted to read, you would be inconvenienced.  If he tied you up with bungee cords and duct tape and left you in the basement, you would also be inconvenienced.  Those two are also similar in that regard.

But no one would argue that that someone checking a book out of a library is an unjust act, whereas leaving someone tied up in the basement generally would be.

[jimmy olsen]

We are super fucked, and folks living on an island have every reason to be concerned.

Greenland is falling apart

[mongers]

We are super fucked, and folks living on an island have every reason to be concerned.

Greenland is falling apart

No 'we' are not, it's poorer countries, people at the margins of developed countries who'll have a very real struggle, the rest of you will only be marginally inconvenienced by climate change.

Otherwise well off people like yourself and us might have done something about the know problem earlier, like say drastically cutting back on air travel years ago.

[derspiess]

Yeah.  Thanks, Tim

[jimmy olsen]

We are super fucked, and folks living on an island have every reason to be concerned.

Greenland is falling apart

No 'we' are not, it's poorer countries, people at the margins of developed countries who'll have a very real struggle, the rest of you will only be marginally inconvenienced by climate change.

Otherwise well off people like yourself and us might have done something about the know problem earlier, like say drastically cutting back on air travel years ago.

I'm pretty sure the world population in 2119 is going to be closer to the world population in 1919 then the population in 2019. Things are going to get very bad.

[mongers]

We are super fucked, and folks living on an island have every reason to be concerned.

Greenland is falling apart

No 'we' are not, it's poorer countries, people at the margins of developed countries who'll have a very real struggle, the rest of you will only be marginally inconvenienced by climate change.

Otherwise well off people like yourself and us might have done something about the know problem earlier, like say drastically cutting back on air travel years ago.

I'm pretty sure the world population in 2119 is going to be closer to the world population in 1919 then the population in 2019. Things are going to get very bad.

Pointless conjecture, both you and I won't be alive then.

Nice side step, but in the here and now you and the rest of us continue to pollute the atmosphere in unsustainable quantities, so what are go going to do about you own share?

[jimmy olsen]

I use public transit exclusively. Buses and trains.

[Tamas]

One feeling of unease I still have is that such general thoughts/views of impending doom and calamitic apocalypse due to the sins of humanity have been present throughout history.

This time of course this is supported by ample scientific evidence, but I do feel like the true reason the public is jumping on this (including many of these protesters) is the same "repent for our sins" reflex that previous generations had.

Which will actually decrease the chance of a measured switch toward a more sustainable global economy. With growing impatience, fighting climate change will take on more religious aspects and will end up sabotaging everything, since people will NOT stomach drastic cuts in standards of living.

[mongers]

I use public transit exclusively. Buses and trains.

No aircraft then?

[Tamas]

I am somewhat skeptical on the train vs. plane long term journey. Like this study studied: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17260-train-can-be-worse-for-climate-than-plane/

A vehicle doesn't just comes out of thin air and remains operation by sheer force of will. It is built, maintained, it requires an infrastructure, that needs building and maintaining.

Has anyone made a real study what would happen if the current European travel by air would be dumped on the railroads? Or the idea is to just stop travelling altogether?


How many people, for example, would need to drop their car usage to zero to match the stoppage of just a single cargo ship? Should the global economy be dismantled so we don't have to constantly criss-cross the bloody planet burning fossil fuels? But then how would that help? Most regions relying on their local resources would become far worse when it comes to damage to the ecology and climate, I'd bet.

[mongers]

I am somewhat skeptical on the train vs. plane long term journey. Like this study studied: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17260-train-can-be-worse-for-climate-than-plane/

A vehicle doesn't just comes out of thin air and remains operation by sheer force of will. It is built, maintained, it requires an infrastructure, that needs building and maintaining.

Has anyone made a real study what would happen if the current European travel by air would be dumped on the railroads? Or the idea is to just stop travelling altogether?


How many people, for example, would need to drop their car usage to zero to match the stoppage of just a single cargo ship? Should the global economy be dismantled so we don't have to constantly criss-cross the bloody planet burning fossil fuels? But then how would that help? Most regions relying on their local resources would become far worse when it comes to damage to the ecology and climate, I'd bet.

It's rather complicated, but in part up to all of us to find out and make informed choices.

I think you're wrong on cars vs ship emissions. Modern cargo ships are impressively efficient. It's surprising how little effort is required to move 8-10,000 TEU half way across the planet vs moving one container on a lorry across a small country.