Extinction Rebellion Protests

[miozozny]

Well we have far from a well-functioning democracy. As democracy falters, the people's options go from voting to protesting to violence. Be glad we are still at the protest stage.

By not well-functioning, do you mean something other than delivering results you oppose?

From a West-European point of view, the American elections are...strange in case you would want a real democracy. The gerrymandering is one problem. The fact that it seems usual that efforts are made to made sure that certain groups of people won't be allowed to vote because they would mostly vote for the other party is another. A few european countries used to have compulsory voting. I think Belgium still has it. Compare that to the USA...     

[Oexmelin]

@Ucks
First of all you picked a lousy example with blacks in the Jim Crow south, since they couldn't vote.

Fine. Did the white slavers feel represented by their black representatives during Reconstruction? 

It's not about impacting policy, it's about being noticed. Is that it?

Yes.

With two slight amendments:

as I said above, protests can impact policy. You just don't know what its future impact will be when you organize one, or when you remain spectator of one. The next Pastafarian protest may draw 30,000 people on the Mall. Or it may draw none. Or it may lead to larger appreciation for separation of church and state. People who point to specific "good" protests usually forget the hundreds of "bad" ones which led to it.

"being noticed" sounds perhaps too much like attention-seeking. I think protest perform vital functions of "noticing each other", so to speak. Pastafarians are gratified by the fact that they belong to a community which is made to exist through these actions. Protests truly enact political transformation within people - about the capacity for collective change. When elected representatives ignore protest, they spit in the face of that acknowledgment.

[Maximus]

What do you mean by rigged?

To a significant degree decided by illegal actions that interfere with the election process.

Illegal is sticky. AFAIK the legality of gerrymandering is not fully settled and to some degree depends on intent which is hard to prove.

However legal is not the same as democratic.

The electoral college is, of course, legal but does not represent everyone's vote equally.

The various attempts at suppression have frequently been found to be unconstitutional and therefor illegal. Whether or not these have significantly impacted elections is not something I have the facts to determine.

[Admiral Yi]

Pastafarians are gratified by the fact that they belong to a community which is made to exist through these actions.

So you are conceding it's about self-gratification? 

[crazy canuck]

How do you see this protest being effective?

Let me turn the question around.  How has it not?  Is silence about the threat climate change poses better so that the Monos of the world can continue in their ignorant bliss?

[crazy canuck]

Pastafarians are gratified by the fact that they belong to a community which is made to exist through these actions.

So you are conceding it's about self-gratification? 

Yi, self gratification is what occurs when you engage in whatever you do to cause yourself pleasure.  Others engage in activities that go beyond themselves.

[Valmy]

In functioning democracies protests are essentially exercises in self-gratification.

Well we have far from a well-functioning democracy. As democracy falters, the people's options go from voting to protesting to violence. Be glad we are still at the protest stage.

You live in the UK?

[Maximus]

In functioning democracies protests are essentially exercises in self-gratification.

Well we have far from a well-functioning democracy. As democracy falters, the people's options go from voting to protesting to violence. Be glad we are still at the protest stage.

You live in the UK?

Do you think we are past the protest stage in the US?

[Oexmelin]

So you are conceding it's about self-gratification? 

Sure. I thought I had said as much. But you dismiss it as "merely" self-gratification (which I assume you ascribe to individual protesters), whereas I think it's a process of collective gratification that is essential for a functioning democracy. At some point, if every action is somehow about self-satisfaction, it seems like the accusation loses its explanatory power, no?

[Razgovory]

It's odd that so many people who live in a country that glorified violent acts of destructive protest are so contemptuous of any sort of protest.

[mongers]

It's odd that so many people who live in a country that glorified violent acts of destructive protest are so contemptuous of any sort of protest.

That would be one, Mono and he doesn't live here. 

[Valmy]

Do you think we are past the protest stage in the US?

I was just curious why you were using "we" for the UK. I have no fucking clue where you live these days.

[Admiral Yi]

It's odd that so many people who live in a country that glorified violent acts of destructive protest are so contemptuous of any sort of protest.

Luckily for at least one of those people, he managed to qualify his statement to functioning democracies, and is thus able to evade the hammer blow of your otherwise scathing indictment.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Just to clarify; the climate extinction protests involve a lot of illegal acts. In the UK it is perfectly possible to make a legal protest. The most recent one was the march in favour of remaining in the EU; a well-conducted march with something like 700,000 participants and no illegality. I'd have been happy to join that march if I'd been in the area that weekend.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45925542

[garbon]

How do you see this protest being effective?

Let me turn the question around.  How has it not?  Is silence about the threat climate change poses better so that the Monos of the world can continue in their ignorant bliss?

Paints caring about the environment as something the loony left does. Extinction Rebellion has openly connected it with illegal activity, something they are proud of.

Even the Guardian editorials seem conflicted on the extent to which they should embrace/castigate this movement.

More, perhaps even most, of the conversation seems to be about what they are doing rather than their cause.