Extinction Rebellion Protests

[Oexmelin]

In an unsurprising development, people who are temperamentally or politically ill-disposed towards protests tend to underplay their efficacy. And people who are temperamentally or politically well disposed towards protests are more likely to assign them value.

The problem with assigning effectiveness to a protest is that we do not know. Any causal link between protest and policy change is ascribed retrospectively - and with great difficulty at that. The decision to organize, or participate in a protest must be made in relation to the nature of the cause, the value of protest as principle, and a wager about outcomes. No one can know for certain that the one protest they chose is "the one" protest that will tip the scales - and most likely because such a unique event does not exist. It takes a long series of events and demonstration to build up momentum, at least in any political cause I am aware of.

The challenge I see for people who tend to oppose protest as a matter of principle, or dislike, is that any alternative they propose (if/when they propose some, which is rare) is often considerably abstract, hoping for some spontaneous change that would arise in people, transmit through strongly worded letters to their representatives, who then find it in themselves to carry that issue to the political table.

The challenge I see for protests now is, first, that convenience of transportation has become such a highly rated value - both personally and structurally. Drivers tolerate less and less impediment to their commutes - in part because such commutes are longer and longer, and the consequences, made to be more and more important. People have become really aggressive (and dangerous) when their drive is hindered, and drivers attempting to drive through crowds are not uncommon. When protests are devised as really inward looking (as self-validation, as Yi would say) as opposed to bridge-building, it can create some backlash. The irony is that these tensions have been increased by the very car-centric way of life that environmentalism propose to fight.

[Maximus]

In functioning democracies protests are essentially exercises in self-gratification.

Well we have far from a well-functioning democracy. As democracy falters, the people's options go from voting to protesting to violence. Be glad we are still at the protest stage.

[Oexmelin]

How do you see this protest being effective?

1. Protest
2. ???
3. Solve climate change by 2025

Apparently, the alternative is:

1. ???
2. ???
3. Solve climate change by 2025

[garbon]

How do you see this protest being effective?

1. Protest
2. ???
3. Solve climate change by 2025

Apparently, the alternative is:

1. ???
2. ???
3. Solve climate change by 2025

It is very likely that no path leads there.

[garbon]

The challenge I see for protests now is, first, that convenience of transportation has become such a highly rated value - both personally and structurally. Drivers tolerate less and less impediment to their commutes - in part because such commutes are longer and longer, and the consequences, made to be more and more important. People have become really aggressive (and dangerous) when their drive is hindered, and drivers attempting to drive through crowds are not uncommon. When protests are devised as really inward looking (as self-validation, as Yi would say) as opposed to bridge-building, it can create some backlash. The irony is that these tensions have been increased by the very car-centric way of life that environmentalism propose to fight.

Probably doesn't help that they are also hindering mass transit what with buses and tube lines having faced disruption in the past week. If you want to try and hold a city hostage, you better be damn sure it is going to be effective.

[Admiral Yi]

Well we have far from a well-functioning democracy. As democracy falters, the people's options go from voting to protesting to violence. Be glad we are still at the protest stage.

By not well-functioning, do you mean something other than delivering results you oppose?

[Maximus]

By not well-functioning, do you mean something other than delivering results you oppose?

Yes, I mean delivering results the people oppose.

[Oexmelin]

Probably doesn't help that they are also hindering mass transit what with buses and tube lines having faced disruption in the past week.

Yes. I think a much smarter move would have been to organize something that actively valued mass transit.

But still haven't answered the question of how you would ascribe effectiveness. What would an effective, and non-disruptive protest look like? What measures of effectiveness would you use?

[Admiral Yi]

You never responded to my question about feeling represented Ucks.

[The Brain]

By not well-functioning, do you mean something other than delivering results you oppose?

Yes, I mean delivering results the people oppose.

Do you think elections are rigged?

[Maximus]

What do you mean by rigged?

[mongers]

The challenge I see for protests now is, first, that convenience of transportation has become such a highly rated value - both personally and structurally. Drivers tolerate less and less impediment to their commutes - in part because such commutes are longer and longer, and the consequences, made to be more and more important. People have become really aggressive (and dangerous) when their drive is hindered, and drivers attempting to drive through crowds are not uncommon. When protests are devised as really inward looking (as self-validation, as Yi would say) as opposed to bridge-building, it can create some backlash. The irony is that these tensions have been increased by the very car-centric way of life that environmentalism propose to fight.

Probably doesn't help that they are also hindering mass transit what with buses and tube lines having faced disruption in the past week. If you want to try and hold a city hostage, you better be damn sure it is going to be effective.

Indeed.

And that's the stand out oddity of this protest, the targeting of mass transit; the is DLR one of the more efficient light rail systems and the London buses disproportionately hit by the Waterloo bridge and Oxford street blockades.
The TFL bus system being the most efficient in the country in terms of C02 emissions per passenger mile.

Ironically car drivers in central London had the better options in avoiding these blockages, as compared to some stuck on public transport.

[Oexmelin]

You never responded to my question about feeling represented Ucks.

I am not sure I understand your question.

Yes, there is the technical fact of representation. Rules assert that by voting, I am represented.

But am I? Representation can never be just the technical conformity to one existing system - otherwise this system would never change, and African-Americans were truly represented by the white people elected in the South. What happens then, when my representative never, ever, carry any thing resembling my voice to the political arena? And what happens when other people - people exterior, say, to my county, seem to have their own voices considerably amplified by my own representative - like, lobbyists, or party leadership.

Adding to that, is the issue, which I deem fundamental for democracies, that citizens represent themselves to one another without the recourse to elected representatives. Admittedly, this is not a very technical meaning of representation: it simply means that we see each other acting as citizens, without being summoned by some higher authority. I don't want my sense of political belonging to be wholly swallowed by  institutions, however enlightened they may have been.

Feeling represented and being represented will always create discrepancies - and this is in fact, a good thing. Because it means you critique political leadership and hold them to account. You ask them to justify this discrepancy. If the moment of critique, and the moment of reckoning, are only limited to the performance of the vote, there are then very few moments of assessment, and these moments become overdetermined by the technical characters of the vote.

There is a reason why representation has been a major sticking point in the history of democracies.

[The Brain]

What do you mean by rigged?

To a significant degree decided by illegal actions that interfere with the election process.

[Admiral Yi]

@Ucks

First of all you picked a lousy example with blacks in the Jim Crow south, since they couldn't vote.

That aside, I think I understand what you're getting at.  Say there are 10, or 100, fervent, committed Pastifarians scattered throughout all the voting districts in the US.  They will likely not be able to elect a representative who will carry their banner.  However, if they organize a big Pastifarian rally on the Mall, they will feel represented because they have been noticed and people now realize there a couple thousand of their kind.  It's not about impacting policy, it's about being noticed.

Is that it?