The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

[Tamas]

Youtube for a while was recommending me a movie review guy (with a drunk Scot shtick) whom I have grown very tired of and blocked from future recommendations because he was too "anti-PC" for my taste.

But I think where he had a point (specifically raised regarding Rey in the Star Wars sequels) is that script writers do not dare make female protagonists face the same challenges they are happy to make male ones do, like a villain who can beat them up initially etc. because then you have a woman being beaten around on screen which is bad optics. So female protagonists just end up cutting through everything like knife through butter from the start of the movie to the end.

[Oexmelin]

That's true.

But from the same token, they also tend not to have women as action heroes, and tend to have women consistently the object of « motivational violence » for men action heroes. Have you noticed a woman is rarely motivated by threats of violence against her husband?

If they wanted a more realistic portrayal, they'd probably need to have Rey continuously have to outdo herself at any challenge, continuously being belittled by male Jedi, having her abilities doubted by drunk Tatooine guys, being denounced as having become a Jedi only as some mesure of affirmative action by the new corporate administration of the Jedi Temple.

The problem with these guys (which YouTube's algorithm also pushed for me, for a while) is that they are quite selective when it comes to the lazy writing tropes they loudly denounce. For some reason, it's always certain kinds of lazy writing that they are ranting against, while many others are just a-okay.

[celedhring]

The problem with these guys (which YouTube's algorithm also pushed for me, for a while) is that they are quite selective when it comes to the lazy writing tropes they loudly denounce. For some reason, it's always certain kinds of lazy writing that they are ranting against, while many others are just a-okay.

Yeah, that's my issue with them too. There are oozles of lazy writing they seem very fine with if the protagonist is a brooding male.

In the end, lazy movies are lazy movies. As for good protagonists in action movies, I've always loved Imperator Furiosa. She's a strong-willed figher and a driver of the story, but not a kickass martial artist - Max subdues her easily. She's trying to escape to the place where she was born (the hero that wants to go back to the womb is such a traditional hero theme) instead of transforming her reality, and her journey makes her finally decide to attempt to do it. All in all, a traditional, well written, hero. (The great thing about Fury Road, besides the amazing action scenes, is how it needs so little to flesh out its characters - it's such a wonderful movie).

[Oexmelin]

Oh, yes. Fury Road is, I think, the best action movies in recent years. It's also very earnest - there aren't a lot of quips, it's « quotable moments » are all true to character, and from the world (« witness me! ») rather than characters being smartasses, or winking obnoxiously at the audience.

[Tamas]

Good points.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Youtube for a while was recommending me a movie review guy (with a drunk Scot shtick) whom I have grown very tired of and blocked from future recommendations because he was too "anti-PC" for my taste.

But I think where he had a point (specifically raised regarding Rey in the Star Wars sequels) is that script writers do not dare make female protagonists face the same challenges they are happy to make male ones do, like a villain who can beat them up initially etc. because then you have a woman being beaten around on screen which is bad optics. So female protagonists just end up cutting through everything like knife through butter from the start of the movie to the end.

I used to watch him. He and others like him often devolve into the endless rant that I see on social media.  Even when they like something it is compared to whatever social issue is triggering them that week.

[Sheilbh]

Also I feel like it depends on the film/style of action film - and star. In this thread for example, I can't remember seeing Aragorn get the shit kicked out of him. That's not the story they're telling.

It is a really cliched story beat in some action films, especially Marvel, but I feel it applies to their female characters too. but it's not every film with a hero.

And another example would be the big male action stars who literally have it in their contract that they can't be shown losing a fight - I believe that applies to Dwayne Johnson, Vin Diesel, Jason Statham and others, but that might just be gossip.

[Habbaku]

But I think where he had a point (specifically raised regarding Rey in the Star Wars sequels) is that script writers do not dare make female protagonists face the same challenges they are happy to make male ones do, like a villain who can beat them up initially etc. because then you have a woman being beaten around on screen which is bad optics. So female protagonists just end up cutting through everything like knife through butter from the start of the movie to the end.

I think this is why Prey, which was good, but not great, played so well for me. The woman in it is subjected to failure, sexism, challenge after challenge, and succeeds because of her distinct skills and ability to adapt, not because she's a woman in an action film.

[Iormlund]

Also I feel like it depends on the film/style of action film - and star. In this thread for example, I can't remember seeing Aragorn get the shit kicked out of him. That's not the story they're telling.

Aragorn is clearly outmatched by many of his enemies (and everyone is by Sauron).

He only confronts the nazgul with violence when the situation gets desperate (and that is our first impression of him).
Gandalf makes very much clear that he is no match for the balrog either.
And he is bested by a nameless troll at the gates of Mordor, where Pippin saves his life.

In the films Jackson also decides for some reason that he has to create a dramatic scene with him almost perishing to wolf-riders. But lets not speak of such folly.

[Syt]

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-guy-who-sued-amazon-for-infringing-on-his-lord-of-the-rings-fanfic-takes-a-massive-l-now-owes-dollar134000-to-the-tolkien-estate/

The guy who sued Amazon for infringing on his Lord of the Rings fanfic takes a massive L, now owes $134,000 to the Tolkien Estate

Author Demetrious Polychron wanted $250 million for infringement of his book The Fellowship of the King.

Remember the guy with the balls so big he sued Amazon and JRR Tolkien's grandson, claiming they infringed on his Lord of the Rings fanfic with the Rings of Power TV series? In a shocking turn of events that no one (except literally everyone) saw coming, he lost badly and now owes the Tolkien estate $134,000 in legal fees.

The whole thing began back in 2017 when Demetrious Polychron registered his book, "The Fellowship of the King," with the US Copyright office. He then sent a letter to Simon Tolkien, director of the Tolkien Estate and grandson of Lord of the Rings author JRR Tolkien, describing the book and requesting a review of the manuscript.

After receiving no response, he hired a lawyer in 2019 and contacted the Tolkien Estate again with another proposal to collaborate on the project. The estate quickly said "no," at which point he personally delivered a copy of his manuscript to Simon Tolkien's home for consideration.

When that also went ignored, he informed Tolkien that he intended to "publish TFOTK, and an additional six book series, independently." And so he did in September 2022, right around the time The Rings of Power first aired. Shortly after that Polychron filed his lawsuit, claiming that The Rings of Power took ideas from The Fellowship of the King and demanding $250 million in compensation.

It all sounds quite silly, but as we noted when Demetrious filed his lawsuit, this sort of complaint can be a real headache, especially for writers who don't have the resources to go to war in a courtroom. Back in the days of Usenet and BBSes, Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski had (and has) a well-known zero tolerance policy against fans posting story ideas for fear that someone would try to claim ownership of an idea that appeared in an episode, while author Marion Zimmer Bradley once scrapped an idea for a novel she was working on because a fan who had written a similar story threatened to sue for co-authorship and half the revenues earned.

Similar things happen in videogames: In 2021, writer and photographer Clayton Haugen sued Activision over allegations that the Call of Duty: Modern Warfare character Mara was based on a character he created for a project called November Renaissance.

In this case, though, it seems the matter was more cut and dry. A BBC report says Polychron's case was dismissed, with the judge ruling in reverse: that Polychron's book infringed upon Amazon's show. The Tolkien Estate then fired off a lawsuit of its own against Polychron seeking to halt further distribution of his book, and last week a permanent injunction against The Fellowship of the King and the six sequels Polychron had planned was granted. The judge on the case also described Polychron's lawsuit as "frivolous and unreasonably filed," and awarded legal fees to the Tolkien Estate and Amazon in the sum of $134,000.

"This is an important success for the Tolkien Estate, which will not permit unauthorised authors and publishers to monetise JRR Tolkien's much-loved works in this way," Steven Maier, the Tolkien Estate's lawyer, said. "This case involved a serious infringement of The Lord of the Rings copyright, undertaken on a commercial basis, and the estate hopes that the award of a permanent injunction and attorneys' fees will be sufficient to dissuade others who may have similar intentions."

It was a bold gambit to be sure, but frankly I can't say I'm surprised by the outcome. I've reached out to Polychron for comment and will update if I receive a reply.

As we say in German: Tja.

(Difficult to properly translate in its meaning in this context ... "Oh well." or "Well, there you go." or "Well, what did you expect?" or "You fucked around and found out." or ... )

[The Brain]

Is FOTK good or great?

[grumbler]

Is FOTK good or great?

No.  Nose too pointy.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

But probably still better that that tv series

[Threviel]

New trailer dropped. Looking better, but I have a hard time thinking they can repair the shit-fest that was the first season.

Also, fortresses are built to withstand artillery, houses falling like they are made of card board is the same mistake made in RotK. Looks cool (for the unitiated), but a catapult is not a howitzer.

[The Brain]

Jackson taking a dump on the outer wall color of Minas Tirith in RotK was bad enough.