Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[Sophie Scholl]

Pointing to Silence of the Lambs and Caitlyn Jenner to provide context for your opinions is... rough. I mean, it makes sense, but ooof.

[Admiral Yi]

I care about making sense, less so about oof and rough.

[DGuller]

I care about making sense, less so about oof and rough.

Makes sense that you do, but yikes.

[Sophie Scholl]

I care about making sense, less so about oof and rough.

"I learned everything I need to know and make an informed decision about the KKK and African Americans by watching Birth of a Nation and seeing Louis Farrakhan in action."

[Josquius]

Sophie didn't say it is not guaranteed to succeed in the military.  You made that part up.

#2 is closest to what I believe.  Nobody has bothered to explain to me how reassignment is a medical necessity.  None of the advocacy I've been exposed to has discussed the medical necessity.  My first exposure to transgenderism was probably Silence of the Lambs.  The discussion there was limited to those cases in which reassignment is advisable.  No discussion of medical necessity. 

Mental health as constituting the medical necessity is IMO the most plausible and reasonable route to get me to where you want me to be in my thinking.  But that is a testable hypothesis.  Are you aware of any attempts to measure mental health of transgender people before and after reassignment?  I am not.  I take a cursory look at Caitlyn Jenner and I can't see any obvious improvement in mental health.

I have immense respect for the medical profession and expect that since I am placing myself in opposition to their collective wisdom I will probably end up being wrong.  But I still want to see the proof.

I was curious so gave it a quick google.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35212746/

Results: Among 104 youths aged 13 to 20 years (mean [SD] age, 15.8 [1.6] years) who participated in the study, there were 63 transmasculine individuals (60.6%), 27 transfeminine individuals (26.0%), 10 nonbinary or gender fluid individuals (9.6%), and 4 youths who responded "I don't know" or did not respond to the gender identity question (3.8%). At baseline, 59 individuals (56.7%) had moderate to severe depression, 52 individuals (50.0%) had moderate to severe anxiety, and 45 individuals (43.3%) reported self-harm or suicidal thoughts. By the end of the study, 69 youths (66.3%) had received PBs, GAHs, or both interventions, while 35 youths had not received either intervention (33.7%). After adjustment for temporal trends and potential confounders, we observed 60% lower odds of depression (adjusted odds ratio [aOR], 0.40; 95% CI, 0.17-0.95) and 73% lower odds of suicidality (aOR, 0.27; 95% CI, 0.11-0.65) among youths who had initiated PBs or GAHs compared with youths who had not. There was no association between PBs or GAHs and anxiety (aOR, 1.01; 95% CI, 0.41, 2.51).

Conclusions and relevance: This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

[Admiral Yi]

What are PBH and GAH?

[The Brain]

Conclusions and relevance: This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

Lower odds but improved well-being?

[DGuller]

Conclusions and relevance: This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

Lower odds but improved well-being?

Is there something inconsistent there?

[The Brain]

Conclusions and relevance: This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

Lower odds but improved well-being?

Is there something inconsistent there?

I don't know. I find it difficult to understand exactly what they are saying.

[DGuller]

I don't know. I find it difficult to understand exactly what they are saying.

Odds is a very common term in studies.  If p is the probability of event, the odds are p/(1-p).  Lower odds necessarily imply lower probability.  It's not surprising to me that improved well-being is correlated with lower probability of suicide.

[Habbaku]

What are PBH and GAH?

Objective: To investigate changes in mental health over the first year of receiving gender-affirming care and whether initiation of puberty blockers (PBs) and gender-affirming hormones (GAHs) was associated with changes in depression, anxiety, and suicidality.

[Razgovory]

I think of sex reassignment as closer to cosmetic surgery. 

Just. Wow.

Well, he's right.  Cosmetic surgery, such as replacing parts of someone's face that they lost due to an accident or combat seems fairly comparable to sex reassignment.  The idea is the help their mental health.

Sophie said that she is basically dependent on hormones now, because her body stopped producing something it needs.  I could see why the military wouldn't want to pay for inducing chemical dependency on someone.

[Jacob]

Sophie didn't say it is not guaranteed to succeed in the military.  You made that part up.

Fair point. It was an inference on my part based on what she did say.

#2 is closest to what I believe.  Nobody has bothered to explain to me how reassignment is a medical necessity.  None of the advocacy I've been exposed to has discussed the medical necessity.  My first exposure to transgenderism was probably Silence of the Lambs.  The discussion there was limited to those cases in which reassignment is advisable.  No discussion of medical necessity.

I expect it's primarily about mental health, as discussed.

Re: understanding transgenderism via Silence of the Lamb - IMO that is about equivalent to basing your understanding of American dating culture on American Psycho.

Mental health as constituting the medical necessity is IMO the most plausible and reasonable route to get me to where you want me to be in my thinking.  But that is a testable hypothesis.  Are you aware of any attempts to measure mental health of transgender people before and after reassignment?  I am not.  I take a cursory look at Caitlyn Jenner and I can't see any obvious improvement in mental health.

I don't have any data at hand, but it's something I believe to be true anecdotally, based on the transgender people I've known personally - via work or socially.

I'm only vaguely aware of Caitlyn Jenner, but from what I understand she's a billionaire reality TV celebrity or some such. I don't think that's a reasonable data point, especially since (I assume) the information you have on her is all based on curated and marketed stories designed to generate engagement in the celebrity news marketplace.

I have immense respect for the medical profession and expect that since I am placing myself in opposition to their collective wisdom I will probably end up being wrong.  But I still want to see the proof.

That's seems reasonable. What sort of proof would you find persuasive?

[The Brain]

I don't know. I find it difficult to understand exactly what they are saying.

Odds is a very common term in studies.  If p is the probability of event, the odds are p/(1-p).  Lower odds necessarily imply lower probability.  It's not surprising to me that improved well-being is correlated with lower probability of suicide.

Thanks. I've never encountered the term in science before.

[Admiral Yi]

Re: understanding transgenderism via Silence of the Lamb - IMO that is about equivalent to basing your understanding of American dating culture on American Psycho.

How so?