Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[crazy canuck]

If you're in no discernable way affected by a visit to Auschwitz, there's something seriously wrong with you.

It's going to become more common over time, as the war generation dies out completely and we grow more disconnected from the event.  At some point, people are going to treat 'Hitler' with the same amount of vitriol that they do 'Wallenstein'. 

Yeah, a couple hundred years from now. 

[Neil]

If you're in no discernable way affected by a visit to Auschwitz, there's something seriously wrong with you.

It's going to become more common over time, as the war generation dies out completely and we grow more disconnected from the event.  At some point, people are going to treat 'Hitler' with the same amount of vitriol that they do 'Wallenstein'. 

Yeah, a couple hundred years from now.

Probably less than that.  I'd wager that the grandchildren of some of our younger Languishites probably won't have the same headspace around it that we do.  Especially as 'Nazi' has become more and more normalized to mean people that you see around you every day, even people that you can know and like. 

[crazy canuck]

If you're in no discernable way affected by a visit to Auschwitz, there's something seriously wrong with you.

It's going to become more common over time, as the war generation dies out completely and we grow more disconnected from the event.  At some point, people are going to treat 'Hitler' with the same amount of vitriol that they do 'Wallenstein'. 

Yeah, a couple hundred years from now.

Probably less than that.  I'd wager that the grandchildren of some of our younger Languishites probably won't have the same headspace around it that we do.  Especially as 'Nazi' has become more and more normalized to mean people that you see around you every day, even people that you can know and like. 

I'm not sure if you've been to one of the death camps. When I went to see one I thought I'd be perfectly cool about it. But by the time I was nearing the end of viewing the site I couldn't stop the tears.  I just cannot imagine somebody being on that site standing beside the son of somebody who died and have no emotion whatsoever.

[garbon]

If you're in no discernable way affected by a visit to Auschwitz, there's something seriously wrong with you.

It's going to become more common over time, as the war generation dies out completely and we grow more disconnected from the event.  At some point, people are going to treat 'Hitler' with the same amount of vitriol that they do 'Wallenstein'. 

Yeah, a couple hundred years from now.

Probably less than that.  I'd wager that the grandchildren of some of our younger Languishites probably won't have the same headspace around it that we do.  Especially as 'Nazi' has become more and more normalized to mean people that you see around you every day, even people that you can know and like. 

I'm not sure if you've been to one of the death camps. When I went to see one I thought I'd be perfectly cool about it. But by the time I was nearing the end of viewing the site I couldn't stop the tears.  I just cannot imagine somebody being on that site standing beside the son of somebody who died and have no emotion whatsoever.

I only didn't cry at the relatively "tame" Dachau as there was an annoying American on my tour and being irritated helped.

[Barrister]

Yeah Auschwitz didn't make me cry but I found it a very intense experience.

But - while I was obviously not around during WWII, I grew up knowing people who had (grandparents), so you're kind of just that one step or generation removed.  My own kids don't have even that connection, so it probably does hit differently.

[Neil]

I'm not sure if you've been to one of the death camps. When I went to see one I thought I'd be perfectly cool about it. But by the time I was nearing the end of viewing the site I couldn't stop the tears.  I just cannot imagine somebody being on that site standing beside the son of somebody who died and have no emotion whatsoever.

I've never been, so I can't speak to it.  But most people won't have that experience either, and our generation was primed emotionally with the exceptionalism of the Holocaust, and how it was a unique example of man's utter inhumanity.  Future generations, who haven't had that same programming might not react the same way.  They also live in a world where they're much more aware that similar mass slaughters are still taking place than we were. 

Maybe it'll prove to have more resonance over time, but only time will tell. 

[Grey Fox]

My son reacts strongly to the Holocaust, Nazism and WWII. My teenage daughter doesn't give a shit.

[Tamas]

I do feel like ww2 has already exited the communal psyche at least it's not nearly the major thing it used to be. It must matter a great deal that for my generation it was still part of everyday life as a living memory through the generation of my grandparents but also parents because their childhood was very heavily influenced by the aftermath.

You don't have that anymore. When I was 10 years old world war ONE ended 72 years previous. Ww2 ended almost 80 years ago.

[garbon]

I don't think you need to have close knowledge of ww2 to be struck with despair over the cruelty of humanity.

[crazy canuck]

I'm not sure if you've been to one of the death camps. When I went to see one I thought I'd be perfectly cool about it. But by the time I was nearing the end of viewing the site I couldn't stop the tears.  I just cannot imagine somebody being on that site standing beside the son of somebody who died and have no emotion whatsoever.

I've never been, so I can't speak to it.  But most people won't have that experience either, and our generation was primed emotionally with the exceptionalism of the Holocaust, and how it was a unique example of man's utter inhumanity.  Future generations, who haven't had that same programming might not react the same way.  They also live in a world where they're much more aware that similar mass slaughters are still taking place than we were. 

Maybe it'll prove to have more resonance over time, but only time will tell. 

Yes, I agree with that, but you made your first post in response to our discussion about Musk being right there, with Jewish survivors. 

[crazy canuck]

I don't think you need to have close knowledge of ww2 to be struck with despair over the cruelty of humanity.

I agree.  But when I was at Cliffords Tower in York and read the plague explaining what had happened there in 1190, while I had an emotional response, it was not the same intensity. I think Neil is right that temporal proximity plays a role. As I think about it, I think it is because when we imagine people who are more or less just like us inflicting that kind of cruelty on others, it hits home in different way.

[Barrister]

I don't think you need to have close knowledge of ww2 to be struck with despair over the cruelty of humanity.

I was trying to think of a historical analogue.  Best I can come up with is slavery.

Chattel slavery is absolutely an example of "cruelty of humanity".

I remember seeing the historic slave markets in Salvador, Brazil.  It was one of the main slavemarkets in Brazil - which saw huge numbers of enslaved Africans brought to Brazil.

It was interesting, but not intense in the same way that Auschwitz was.  Part of it may be that Brazil is just not my country or experience (though to be fair, neither is Poland), but mostly it was just so long ago.  Brazil was one of the last countries to abolish slavery - but it was till abolished in 1888.

[Valmy]

Elon intentionally did the Nazi salute. That is obvious. He probably thought it was hilarious. So edgy.

He is an asshole. He may or may not be a Nazi. But I only really need to know the first part.

"a stupid hand gesture" Don't piss on me and tell me its raining. Sure and spraying a swastika on synagogue is a stupid prank as well. Still makes you an asshole.

[HVC]

While proximity in time helps, people have to be taught to care. For a variety of reasons the Jewish holocaust is taught, and taught well. In high school we went to the university to watch a lecture by a holocaust survivor and it was quite moving. At the same time the concurrent genocide of the Roma isn't covered nearly as much and doesn't have the same cultural resonance. Similarly if it was only the timeline it doesn't explain why other modern genocides such and the Rwandan or Cambodian genocides don't seem to illicit the same reaction. You can blame geography, but then you have the Armenian genocide (not that older than the holocaust) or the Ukrainian genocide.

That being said, even with teaching in place time will eventually diminish the impact of the stories.

[Valmy]

Having video helps I think.