Iceland moves towards joining the EU

[Martinus]

So, yes, we're dropping off an EU application. Wow, I'm quite surprised that our MP's managed to do the right thing but maybe that can be explained by statistical probability finally catching up with them. 

Still, it was a very close vote, with a personal roll call of every single MP, so no anonymous pushing of a Yes/No/Abstain button. Plus, the vote went every which way politically speaking, with MP's defying the party whips left and right.  Rather dramatic with boos and cheers alternating and the Speaker having to hit the bell several times and remind Parliament to maintain at least a semblance of decorum toward each other. 

The vote went 33 ayes against 27 nayes with 3 MP's abstaining.

The next item on the agenda will be Parliament agreeing on the Icesave deal between us and the UK & the Netherlands. This one is crucial, because if Parliament kills the deal (50/50 I'd say) Iceland will probably get it's IMF package pulled, it's EU membership blocked by the UK (much like Croatia is being cockblocked by Slovenia), followed by Iceland's loans being called in all at once, as well as the junking of the State's credit rating. Add in vulture funds buying up our debt at a hefty discount and refusing to go away. In short, a sovereign default.

All at the same time.

Even if we agree to pay back Icesave at 5.5% interest rate over the next 27 years, plus the IMF package as well as the unemployment/disability costs, I remain *somewhat* sceptical about Iceland managing to avoid an outright sovereign default. And if not, then at the very least it'll be a country of barebone services of any kind, sluggish economic growth and extremely (even for other Nordic countries) high taxation.   

In short, this is a mess that will take generations to sort out. Not sure I want to stick around to be Gordon Brown's indentured servant unto the 3rd generation.  On the other hand if I and everyone who can do so gives up on Iceland and moves away, then who will pay for the bankers?

I bet all these people who said that sooner a black man will rule the US, a lesbian will rule Iceland and the Icelandic fat cats will go broke, than Iceland will join the EU, are feeling silly now.

[Martinus]

We don't need the EU to get stronger.

Who are "we"? Besides we need to get stronger, so we may fund Hammas more effectively. 

[Martinus]

The next item on the agenda will be Parliament agreeing on the Icesave deal between us and the UK & the Netherlands.

What are the terms of the deal?

Versailles Treaty x 3 for this country. Assuming the tax base dosen't emigrate en masse.

That's the best case scenario.

As to the details, we'll have 27 years to pay off the principal with a 5.5 % interest rate. Which is theoretically doable, provided we slash our education and welfare system down to that of say, Surinam along with with healthy fish stocks and high aluminum prices.

If you join the EU, you will be free to travel for work or for education throughout Europe, so you won't need it anyway. We can depopulate Iceland and change it into a geothermal energy plant/unsinkable air carrier.

[Norgy]

Marty, you're pro-EU.

Sell me on it again. I don't WANT to be against the EU, but common sense tells me Norway has all to lose and nothing to gain from EU membership.
We'll have Spaniards vacuuming our coast, spend like a 10% of GDP on Bulgaria and Romania and get what? Nothing

[Zanza]

I don't think Norway has much to gain from joining the EU. The biggest advantages the EU offers are access to the single market and good governance. The latter might sound funny for a Scandi, but it makes sense when you look at Eastern and Southern Europe. Norway has good governance anyway and has access to the single market.

The other argument one hears often is that you would have a say in EU matters if you joined. But then Norway's voice wouldn't be very loud in EU decision making and it would be offset by having to follow even more EU rules than now.

[The Brain]

Yeah if I could avoid paying Swedish taxes in return for giving up my one-in-6-million vote the choice would be pretty clear.

[Neil]

I would imagine that the 'loot and plunder' EU would be happy for another biosphere to rape.

Since when you are against biosphere raping? 

When it suits me to be so.  Personally, I've always been in favour of forcing humanity to live in a small number of very large cities, and then allowing nature to reclaim the rest of it.  The human population would be stable, and housing would be on an assigned basis, so there would never be any need for new human habitat.

Hopefully, in a couple of thousand years, most of Europe can turn back into a nice, thick forest, and large mammals will return to their old predominance.

[Viking]

I don't think Norway has much to gain from joining the EU. The biggest advantages the EU offers are access to the single market and good governance. The latter might sound funny for a Scandi, but it makes sense when you look at Eastern and Southern Europe. Norway has good governance anyway and has access to the single market.

The other argument one hears often is that you would have a say in EU matters if you joined. But then Norway's voice wouldn't be very loud in EU decision making and it would be offset by having to follow even more EU rules than now.

Norway already has all of these. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

[Zanza]

Norway already has all of these.

Yes, that's why I wrote they already have them.

[Norgy]

Ok, I am going to go for a big fat "No fucking way" still.

[clandestino]

Ok, I am going to go for a big fat "No fucking way" still.

But, but... we need more rich countries to pay our bills, not poor ones to steal our alms.

[Viking]

Norway already has all of these.

Yes, that's why I wrote they already have them.

What Norway has to gain is input into the decision making procedure.

[Zanza]

What Norway has to gain is input into the decision making procedure.

Did you even read my post? 

[Norgy]

Norway already has all of these.

Yes, that's why I wrote they already have them.

What Norway has to gain is input into the decision making procedure.

Har. Yeah, right. France will listen to us.

[Alatriste]

Marty, you're pro-EU.

Sell me on it again. I don't WANT to be against the EU, but common sense tells me Norway has all to lose and nothing to gain from EU membership.
We'll have Spaniards vacuuming our coast, spend like a 10% of GDP on Bulgaria and Romania and get what? Nothing

That's what the Icelanders thought too... to put it briefly, no one needs friends when things go all smoothly and future looks rosy. But when the drum begins to roll the more friends and allies you got the better... even if you have to send some euros and let them catch some cod.

Besides, EU is not about Germans being dumb and paying good money for nothing, or Irish being dumb and letting Spanish fishermen in, or Spaniards being dumb and letting German industrial products enter without paying tariffs. It's all about 'quid pro quo', as Hannibal Lecter said to Clarice. Basically the key is, exporters like Germany get the open markets they want, and they give something in return. It's nothing personal, just business.

Oh, and the line about 'Har. Yeah, right. France will listen to us' is just silly. France is one country amongst 27. Not the smallest or the poorest, sure, but these days even a Franco-German axis isn't strong enough to lead the Union.