The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[Duque de Bragança]

They imagine themselves becoming a new Norway or Switzerland, basically.

Why do people want to become like Switzerland? It is not exactly a pleasant place.

Swiss chocolate and cheese. Plus shopping in France becomes very cheap.

[viper37]

That's the power of the Catalan Republic. Since it doesn't exist, it can be everything.

ohh, I like that one!
Be everything you can be! Vote Yes!

I'll keep it in mind, if I ever re-become sovereignist.

[viper37]

Wow you have quite an eclectic group of friends.

outside the US, people tend to mix and diversify.
I do have one uber leftist friend on my FB.   

[celedhring]

Wow you have quite an eclectic group of friends.

They are actually real, I didn't make them up for the sake of the argument 

[Eddie Teach]

outside the US, people tend to mix and diversify.

[The Minsky Moment]

What is the basic beef that Catalans have anyway?

What do they imagine a world with a separate Catalan country looks like, and how is it better for them?

A friend of mine is a hardcore socialist, and imagines it as a worker's paradise.

Another friend is an an-cap, and imagines it as Randesque utopia (well, dystopia).

Another is a fiscal conservative, and imagines it as an ultra-efficient, low-tax, business friendly nation.

Another is an anarchist, and sees it as a Bakunian collection of small collectivized communities.

That's the power of the Catalan Republic. Since it doesn't exist, it can be everything. And that's why if we ever become independent, it would be a monumental clusterfuck.

In reality of course, it would be a Euro-style mixed economy and parliamentary democracy with power alternating back and forth between center left and center right parties.  Like, you know, Spain.

[HVC]

What is the basic beef that Catalans have anyway?

What do they imagine a world with a separate Catalan country looks like, and how is it better for them?

A friend of mine is a hardcore socialist, and imagines it as a worker's paradise.

Another friend is an an-cap, and imagines it as Randesque utopia (well, dystopia).

Another is a fiscal conservative, and imagines it as an ultra-efficient, low-tax, business friendly nation.

Another is an anarchist, and sees it as a Bakunian collection of small collectivized communities.

That's the power of the Catalan Republic. Since it doesn't exist, it can be everything. And that's why if we ever become independent, it would be a monumental clusterfuck.

it's ok, after each faction can separate into their own country. then everyone will be happy.

[celedhring]

Apparently some large Catalan companies are yelling at Madrid's government ear in panic and tomorrow they'll issue a decree simplifying the process of relocating a company's HQ within Spain.

[HVC]

will wealth leaving change peoples mind, or will it solidify the us vs them thing since these companies are "traitors"? Is there an intrinsic reason companies settle in Catalonia? easier access to france?

[Barrister]

What is the basic beef that Catalans have anyway?

What do they imagine a world with a separate Catalan country looks like, and how is it better for them?

Well there was a long history of repression of the Catalan language.  I mean that ended with Franco, but people can have long memories for such things...

[celedhring]

will wealth leaving change peoples mind, or will it solidify the us vs them thing since these companies are "traitors"? Is there an intrinsic reason companies settle in Catalonia? easier access to france?

The hardcore separatists are already drumming up the "we don't need them more than they need us" tune. But the moderates are quaking in their boots. The Conseller of Enterprise (the regional equivalent of a Minister), which is the most moderate member in the Catalan government, has already said they shouldn't go forward with the UDI. The radicals are firmly in the driver's seat though. Will see if there's some kind of internal revolt before Monday. Honestly, an UDI would be a total disaster.

25% of Spain's exports go through Catalonia. Besides strategic position, there's a large network of suppliers and logistics for industries like automotive and others, and also good access to capital. Until now at least. 

Iormlund probably knows best though. Since he seems to be working for the WV/Seat plant in Catalonia now.

[Duque de Bragança]

25% of Spain's exports go through Catalonia. Besides strategic position, there's a large network of suppliers and logistics for industries like automotive and others, and also good access to capital. Until now at least. 

Since work on the Basque Y high-speed network is way behind schedule, the only train line without break of gauge goes through Catalonia, though it's mostly for passenger services I believe, since once in Spain (pun intended) the conventional network is still broad gauge, unlike the high-speed network.

Somport and Irun could get really clogged again...

[The Larch]

What is the basic beef that Catalans have anyway?

What do they imagine a world with a separate Catalan country looks like, and how is it better for them?

Well there was a long history of repression of the Catalan language.  I mean that ended with Franco, but people can have long memories for such things...

With Franco there was repression for everyone, it's not like everything was fine and dandy in other places.

[Iormlund]

25% of Spain's exports go through Catalonia. Besides strategic position, there's a large network of suppliers and logistics for industries like automotive and others, and also good access to capital. Until now at least. 

Since work on the Basque Y high-speed network is way behind schedule, the only train line without break of gauge goes through Catalonia, though it's mostly for passenger services I believe, since once in Spain (pun intended) the conventional network is still broad gauge, unlike the high-speed network.

Somport and Irun could get really clogged again...

I suspect one of the consequences of this mess will be to reopen the Canfranc tunnel project. It would be a pretty expensive undertaking, but it would allow Spain to have a link to France bypassing both Catalonia and the Basque Country.

[Tamas]

25% of Spain's exports go through Catalonia. Besides strategic position, there's a large network of suppliers and logistics for industries like automotive and others, and also good access to capital. Until now at least. 

Since work on the Basque Y high-speed network is way behind schedule, the only train line without break of gauge goes through Catalonia, though it's mostly for passenger services I believe, since once in Spain (pun intended) the conventional network is still broad gauge, unlike the high-speed network.

Somport and Irun could get really clogged again...

I suspect one of the consequences of this mess will be to reopen the Canfranc tunnel project. It would be a pretty expensive undertaking, but it would allow Spain to have a link to France bypassing both Catalonia and the Basque Country.

That sounds a bit bleak, doesn't it?