The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[Barrister]

We live under a fascist dictatorship, haven't you heard?

Have you checked on Generalissimo Francisco Franco lately? Last time we enquired about his health, long time ago, he was still dead. We have forgotten him a bit since then, so maybe he is feeling better?

I love that bit.

[celedhring]

The king just appeared on TV to give a speech. This is rather momentous, since it only had happened twice since we became a democracy - always on big national crises. The Spanish monarchy usually keeps a low profile.

Tough speech - as tough as his limited Constitutional role allows him, that is - but he certainly drew a line in the sand. Madrid's not gonna back down from this, not after putting the king's reputation on the line.

[Drakken]

The king just appeared on TV to give a speech. This is rather momentous, since it only had happened twice since we became a democracy - always on big national crises.

Tough speech - as tough as his limited Constitutional role allows him, that is - but he certainly drew a line in the sand. Madrid's not gonna back down from this, not after putting the king's reputation on the line.

Ay, joder.

[viper37]

. With very narrow margins, separatists are putting in jeopardy their economic future.

I cannot think of many countries that haven't been willing to pay the economic price to either achieve their independence, or to keep it.

How many have accepted to pay this economic price to leave a liberal democracy?

Americans were living in a form of democracy.  For 1776, it was a pretty liberal democracy for a lot of things.  Much more thant was granted to other colonies.  Yet, they risked their economic future, and for many years, Americans fled to Canada in search of better economic opportunities.
Algeria's situation by 1954 was similar to that of the American colony, but they jeopardized their future in waging war for independance.
Brexit was the UK leaving the European Union, a democracy in its own.
Scotland tried to leave the UK, a liberal democracy.

If we remove the clause "leaving a liberal democracy" you would find many seperatist movements in history that left one regime for another similar regime.  Many of the Ex USSR republics who became independant do not have any more democracy than what they had inside the USSR.  So, lots of people trade one regime for another identical/similar, for various reasons.

[Drakken]

From CNN:

In a televised statement, King Felipe said the referendum's organizers had jeopardized national stability. "With their decisions, they have systematically undermined the rules approved legally and legitimately, showing an unacceptable disloyalty towards the powers of the state -- a state that represents Catalan interests," he said.

[Valmy]

. With very narrow margins, separatists are putting in jeopardy their economic future.

I cannot think of many countries that haven't been willing to pay the economic price to either achieve their independence, or to keep it.

Except all the ones that didn't. But why would nationalists care? Individual people and their welfare means nothing to you.

[Valmy]

Hey Viper the American Revolution was not about independence until after the war had been going on for a year.

Every other example either proves you wrong, Scotland decided to stay in the UK, or is total BS.

[viper37]

Hey Viper the American Revolution was not about independence until after the war had been going on for a year.

Sure they did not declared independance.  They only expelled all Royal officials from the colony and raised an army to fight the British.  Totally different.  People were fighting to maintain good relations with the British King for a year?
C'mon.
Next thing, you'll tell me the Southerners did not rebel to protect slavery until later in the war?

Every other example either proves you wrong, Scotland decided to stay in the UK, or is total BS.

they wanted to leave.  so they were willing to jeopardize their economic future.

[viper37]

From CNN:

In a televised statement, King Felipe said the referendum's organizers had jeopardized national stability. "With their decisions, they have systematically undermined the rules approved legally and legitimately, showing an unacceptable disloyalty towards the powers of the state -- a state that represents Catalan interests," he said.

It's going to get worst, imho.

[Duque de Bragança]

Every other example either proves you wrong, Scotland decided to stay in the UK, or is total BS.

Algeria is way messed up nowadays, I even heard Algerians discussing once the what if Algeria stays French with some autonomy status.
Even for Algeria with their lunatic socialist policies afterwards? Though given how troublesome to assimilate Algerians in France are, France actually saved its future, instead of jeopardizing it, by getting rid of even more Algerians. De Gaulle had no illusions in this matter and would pass as racist nowadays with its (unofficial) thoughts on the matter.

[Barrister]

From CNN:

In a televised statement, King Felipe said the referendum's organizers had jeopardized national stability. "With their decisions, they have systematically undermined the rules approved legally and legitimately, showing an unacceptable disloyalty towards the powers of the state -- a state that represents Catalan interests," he said.

This... feels like a mistake.

[HVC]

he's gotta say something.

[The Brain]

Looks bad if the head of state won't speak up for the state.

[mongers]

From CNN:

In a televised statement, King Felipe said the referendum's organizers had jeopardized national stability. "With their decisions, they have systematically undermined the rules approved legally and legitimately, showing an unacceptable disloyalty towards the powers of the state -- a state that represents Catalan interests," he said.

This... feels like a mistake.

The Queen would have said something similar if Scotland had declared UDI.   

[Barrister]

The Queen would have said something similar if Scotland had declared UDI.   

Except she didn't say anything like this during the Scots referendum.  And the Catalans, to date, haven't declared independence.