The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[Josquius]

Looks good. Bbc is reporting the Catalan leader has announced the independence vote is on hold and talks shall begin

[Drakken]

Looks good. Bbc is reporting the Catalan leader has announced the independence vote is on hold and talks shall begin

Yeah, except that Madrid won't talk. They will either ignore or invoke Article 155 in the next hours or so.

It's like the separatists genuinely believe that Rajoy pulled out the King himself to threaten them directly, all for a gigantic bluff. They are all in cuckooland.

[Valmy]

Looks good. Bbc is reporting the Catalan leader has announced the independence vote is on hold and talks shall begin

What is there to discuss though?

I mean unless this is some kind of leverage bluff on the part of the separatists to negotiate an autonomy deal.

[viper37]

We now know that the Canadian government was in a state of utter panic when the polls showed that the Yes side was trending a majority. They just expected to win by default and they became desperate when the Yes was in the lead, hence why they decided to cheat the system and use federal money to fund the "love-in" demonstration right before the vote, and use expediencies like fast-tracking grants of citizenships for new immigrants (with the expectation they would vote No).

I just have a hard time believing stuff like this. Politicians are famously super paranoid and neurotic about every vote to the point they even cheat when they have double digit leads. The idea that any of them would expect to win by default strikes me as unlikely.

there were public inquiries into this, two, actually, plus numerous revisions of the case by the Directeur Général des Élections. 
That was confirmed.
The pretention by the Feds that a large number of votes were rejected by the Yes side was found untrue.

You have to remember this was the second referendum, 15 years after the 1st one.
The NO side won the first one 60-40.

Before the 1995 referendum, polls indicated a victory to the NO side by about the same margin.  Parizeau was hellbent on making a referendum anyway, but he lacked the charisma to champion the cause.  And just like everywhere else in the free world, people pretend to be concerned at their wallet, their tax levels, the general state of the economy, but when you talk about that, they get bored and don't listen to you, unless you tell them exactly what they want to hear.

Here comes Lucien Bouchard with a bold new strategy: "Numbers aren't important, it's what you feel".  It worked, to a point.  Support for the 'yes' side kept climbing, going for 41-42% to 49,5% by the time of the vote.

Drakken is still pissed off Quebec might have rejected the Queen and that's something he'll never forgive the seperatists for.

[viper37]

Minsky was right. This is farce. Pity that I don't find it funny.

Did the crisis affect Spanish economy at all, aside Catolonia, I mean?

[Drakken]

So, when is the official response from Madrid - and Rajoy's public statement - scheduled to happen?

[celedhring]

So, when is the official response from Madrid - and Rajoy's public statement - scheduled to happen?

Tomorrow afternoon (16h IIRC)

Honestly? The separatist radicals are furious and the people waiting outside Parliament to celebrate independence look like Barça just lost the CL final. I'd rather Madrid took his sweet time before giving them anything to galvanize them again.

[Valmy]

Hopefully the radical separatists forget that revolutionaries are not supposed to eat their own until AFTER the revolution wins.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Looks good. Bbc is reporting the Catalan leader has announced the independence vote is on hold and talks shall begin

Yeah, except that Madrid won't talk. They will either ignore or invoke Article 155 in the next hours or so.

It's like the separatists genuinely believe that Rajoy pulled out the King himself to threaten them directly, all for a gigantic bluff. They are all in cuckooland.

Then maybe Madrid doesn't belong in the EU but rather the middle east. There they also don't talk.

seems to me that Madrid can be happy the Catalans are who they are. In other places bombs would have been going off by now.

[celedhring]

Madrid has indicated that it's willing to talk of anything outside of independence, Congress has even started a commission for Constitutional reform. On that count, they succeeded, yet they seemed to prefer to jump off the cliff.

[Valmy]

Madrid has indicated that it's willing to talk of anything outside of independence, Congress has even started a commission for Constitutional reform. On that count, they succeeded, yet they seemed to prefer to jump off the cliff.

In a shocking turn of events CI is misrepresenting the whole situation? Amazing.

[HVC]

I can smell the poo from here. CiU was a Christian-Democrat business-friendly party for the past 40 years. And he's managed to have every single company in the Ibex 35 stock index leave the region in less than a week.

if companies are smart they'll keep moving. you'll probably get this thing happening every few decades, especially if you give them goodies for staying.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Madrid has indicated that it's willing to talk of anything outside of independence, Congress has even started a commission for Constitutional reform. On that count, they succeeded, yet they seemed to prefer to jump off the cliff.

In a shocking turn of events CI is misrepresenting the whole situation? Amazing.

Don't be the ass you usually are Valmy. At least give us that shocking turn of events.

It took Catalonia going to the brink of UDI for Madrid to give an indication of willingness to talk. An indication, which is still not the same as actually talking.
None of all the fracas would have been necessary if there had been willingness to talk 7 years ago.
So frankly, given the info available, I'm thinking I'm pretty much on the ball with the representation.

[Drakken]

Madrid has indicated that it's willing to talk of anything outside of independence, Congress has even started a commission for Constitutional reform. On that count, they succeeded, yet they seemed to prefer to jump off the cliff.

I don't want to be a legalistic jerk, but didn't Puidgement proclaim independence, but "suspended" its effect for talks? Words are important here, and that is what I got from his speech: They have not backed down, independence has been proclaimed but not put in effect.

I am not sure Rajoy will read this as "renouncing" independence, because should talks fail it becomes effective. Basically, talks succeed if Madrid relents in every demand they make.

I am willing to bet 100 Euros that Rajoy's reply tomorrow will be that since they have not renounced secession, there will be no talk. Who's on the bet?

[celedhring]

Madrid has indicated that it's willing to talk of anything outside of independence, Congress has even started a commission for Constitutional reform. On that count, they succeeded, yet they seemed to prefer to jump off the cliff.

I don't want to be a legalistic jerk, but didn't Puidgement proclaim independence, but "suspended" its effect for talks? Words are important here, and that is what I got from his speech: They have not backed down, independence has been proclaimed but not put in effect.

I am not sure Rajoy will read this as "renouncing" independence, because should talks fail it becomes effective.

I think Rajoy will proceed as if an UDI was indeed in effect. Which personally I think it's a mistake.

And if we are going the legalistic way, according to their ad-hoc law Parliament had to proclaim independence - not the Government. There hasn't been an act of Parliament today, just an address by the President.