New Math? Fuzzy Math? Fluffy Math!

[Josquius]

I'm all for making concepts the prime target in maths.

I've met an awful lot of engineers that were able to memorize definitions and solve equations well enough to get their degree, yet can't solve problems in the real world.
I don't fucking care if you can ace an exam, if you are unable to create something new, you are worth nothing. I don't know if you can train kids for that, but it's certainly worth considering.

That our world is based so heavily on exams is a terrible system. I've met quite a few idiots who happened to be good at exams.
Sadly there's little better alternative.

[CountDeMoney]

Yep, Catholic or private school is looking better and better in about 4 years.

Too goddamned bad.  Grumbler wants them to start working on advanced theory now.

[CountDeMoney]

I've met quite a few idiots who happened to be good at exams.

It's not just reserved to engineers, but doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs.  A dysfunctional Rainman with Asparagus Syndrome is going to be an asshole, regardless of whether or not he is an engineer trained in traditional math.

[Josquius]

I've met quite a few idiots who happened to be good at exams.

It's not just reserved to engineers, but doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs.  A dysfunctional Rainman with Asparagus Syndrome is going to be an asshole, regardless of whether or not he is an engineer trained in traditional math.

Nah, I mean literal idiots. People who are thick. Not just people I don't like.

[Martinus]

That second example is how I do it too. And I like the idea of encouraging making estimates.

Fag.  2 + 2 = 5 does not deserve a ribbon.  Asshole.

My doctoral thesis was about the circumstances under which n+n can appear to be the same size as n, for n a suitably large number.

We're not talking doctoral theses here, Good Will Cunting, we're talking elementary level mathematics.  A 9 year old doesn't need to learn that n + n = "not really".   At their level, they need to know mathematics has a right answer, and a wrong answer, not an almost right answer.

I totally agree.

It's amazing how stupid some of the responses in this thread are.

[Martinus]

That our world is based so heavily on exams is a terrible system. I've met quite a few idiots who happened to be good at exams.

I'm frankly getting sick and tired of this kind of attitude being prevalent in the modern day. Yes, idiots can also pass exams well. And yes, we are all unique and beautiful snowflakes who should be given an opportunity to blossom in our own unique ways. But if we took this road, we would not be able to tell a dysfunctional, useless, impossible-to-adapt-or-work-in-a-team moron (99% of people who consider themselves unique and thus fail to sit down and pass a simple exam even if they find it useless) from the true geniuses (1%).

[grumbler]

I totally agree.

It's amazing how stupid some of the responses in this thread are.

  I am also amazed by some of the stupid responses in this thread, but not at all amazed that you "totally agree" with them!

[Iormlund]

Indeed.  Estimation is not only a higher-level thinking skill (and thus useful in its own right) but essential to actual math success.  If one sticks to the CountDeHeadInTheSand method, students cannot recognize when they have reached mpossible andswers unless the teacher tells them.

4th graders aren't given problems with impossible answers.  And what's with all this "higher-level thinking"  and Pishtaco's PhD bullshit, anyway?  Can we all wait until they at least reach puberty before we teach them higher-level math already?

I don't know enough of human brain development, but I'd wager it would be far easier to introduce certain skills as a kid just as it is much easier to learn a language that way.

Notice that I'm not advocating this TERC thing, just saying memory alone (and I've got a fantastic memory) shouldn't be our sole focus when teaching (and not just in maths). I value the ability to come up with new, different answers or to gauge new approaches much more. And so does the real world. Hardest thing in my field is, for example, to estimate the cost of a new project.

[grumbler]

Too goddamned bad.  Grumbler wants them to start working on advanced theory now.

Estimation is not an advanced theory.  You'd be surprised how much smarter some kids are than you were at their age.

I am also surprised how popular speed math is, even amongst the kids that seldom win - and even more surmised that this includes girls who in fourth grade generally don't like competition..

[grumbler]

Hardest thing in my field is, for example, to estimate the cost of a new project.

Estimating expected answers in math is a different skill than estimating costs, though. Let's not get too carried away!

[Iormlund]

Everything is described by maths.

[grumbler]

Everything is described by maths.

You didn't use a single bit of math to describe your assertion here, so I would say that your point is inherently self-refuting. 

[Maximus]

Elementary math does have a right answer and a wrong answer, but you can punch the problem into a calculator and get the right answer but not understand the math.

Generally speaking, using the right method to get the wrong answer is more useful for learning than using the wrong method to get the right answer.

[The Brain]

But if you're using the wrong method to get a wrong answer can make senator or head of GM. It's all good.

[CountDeMoney]

You'd be surprised how much smarter some kids are than you were at their age.

Nonsense.  I am always the smartest kid in the room.  Just ask me.