Terror attack in London, pedestrians hit on London bridge

[sbr]

Jezebel makes Ed's testicles crawl back up into his abdominal cavity, because they know they've been bad.

Seems like a good reason to post more links from Jezebel...

Don't worry, I'll ignore it. 

Says the guy who mentions it every time

[The Brain]

The moment firemen on the way to the Grenfell Tower fire realize what they're up against:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/40332427/grenfell-tower-fire-moment-firefighters-first-saw-the-blaze

That's not flammable cladding, that's flash paper.

Now, now, no use jumping to conclusions, you must wait the obligatory 4 years whilst the inquiry report is written, then another 2 years whilst it's kicked into touch the other side of a general election. 

Rinse and repeat.

Oh drat thats already been done:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40330789

Four ministers were warned about tower block fire risks

Four separate government ministers were warned that fire regulations were not keeping people safe, in letters that have subsequently been seen by the BBC.

In the leaked letters, experts warn that those living in tower blocks like Grenfell Tower were "at risk".

At least 79 people are dead or missing presumed dead after the fire at the London high-rise last week.

The department that received the letters said work to improve regulation and safety had already been under way.

The letters show experts have been worried about fire safety in tower blocks for years.

Following a fatal fire in Lakanal House in south London in 2009, a series of recommendations were made to keep people safe.

They were ignored. The government promised a review of fire regulations in 2013, but it still has not happened.

BBC One's Panorama has obtained a dozen letters sent by the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group.

Informed by experts, it warned the government it "could not afford to wait for another tragedy".

Four ministers - all from the Department for Communities and Local Government - received letters but did not strengthen the regulations.

Ronnie King, a former chief fire officer who sits on the group, says the government has ignored repeated warnings about tower block safety.

"We have spent four years saying 'Listen, we have got the evidence, we've provided you with the evidence, there is clear public opinion towards this, you ought to move on this'," said Mr King.

After six people were killed at Lakanal House in 2009, the coroner made a series of safety recommendations for the government to consider.

The government department promised a review in 2013, but it was soon delayed.

In March 2014, the parliamentary group wrote: "Surely... when you already have credible evidence to justify updating... the guidance... which will lead to saving of lives, you don't need to wait another three years in addition to the two already spent since the research findings were updated, in order to take action?

"As there are estimated to be another 4,000 older tower blocks in the UK, without automatic sprinkler protection, can we really afford to wait for another tragedy to occur before we amend this weakness?"

After further correspondence, Liberal Democrat MP Steven Williams - who was then a minister in the department - replied: "I have neither seen nor heard anything that would suggest that consideration of these specific potential changes is urgent and I am not willing to disrupt the work of this department by asking that these matters are brought forward."

The group replied to say they "were at a loss to understand, how you had concluded that credible and independent evidence, which had life safety implications, was NOT considered to be urgent".

"As a consequence the group wishes to point out to you that should a major fire tragedy, with loss of life, occur between now and 2017 in, for example, a residential care facility or a purpose built block of flats, where the matters which had been raised here, were found to be contributory to the outcome, then the group would be bound to bring this to others' attention."

The letters were written before the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower.

One went to the-then Communities and Local Government Secretary Eric Pickles, who received a letter about fire regulations from the parliamentary group in February 2014.

He had also been asked to look at fire safety in February 2013 and March 2013 by two separate coroners, investigating two tower block fires.

In December 2015, the all-party group wrote to Conservative MP James Wharton, another minister in the department at the time, and warned about the risk of fires spreading on the outside of buildings with cladding.

"Today's buildings have a much higher content of readily available combustible material. Examples are timber and polystyrene mixes in structure, cladding and insulation.

"This fire hazard results in many fires because adequate recommendations to developers simply do not exist. There is little or no requirement to mitigate external fire spread."

The last of the four ministers in the department to receive a letter was Gavin Barwell, who has since moved on to become Theresa May's top aide. He received his letter from the parliamentary group in September last year.

In November, Mr Barwell replied to say his department had been looking at the regulations, and would make a statement "in due course".

In April this year, Mr Barwell wrote to say he did "acknowledge that producing a statement on building regulations has taken longer than I had envisaged".

The fire safety group pointed out that it had been "given a similar response by three successive ministers since 2010" and it "is now time to listen to what the Fire Sector is saying".

The government has said there is still no timetable for a review.

The Department for Communities and Local Government said that a police investigation into the Grenfell Fire is already under way "but it will be some time before it is fully understood how the fire started or why it took hold in the way it did."

In a statement, it added: "The government has acted to improve fire regulation and safety, including the recommendations made by the Coroner following the Lakanal House Fire.

"The final recommendation concerned simplification of fire safety guidance, and this work was under way, with a consultation due to be published this summer.

"Fire safety requirements are complex issues and our priority has been that we have high standards. A great deal of work has been completed, including commissioning and undertaking research to support the planned consultation. Clearly, in light of this tragic event, we need to reflect on whether this consultation is the correct next step to take. We will confirm our approach shortly."
Image copyright
AFP
Image caption
Well-wishers have been leaving tributes at Grenfell Tower

In a separate development, Panorama has discovered that firefighters put out the first fire at Grenfell Tower.

They were called to a fridge fire, and within minutes told residents the fire was out in the flat.

The crew was leaving the building when firefighters outside spotted flames rising up the side of the building.

The Fire Brigades Union say firefighters were left facing an unprecedented fire, and officers broke their own safety protocol to rescue people.

Why were the letters secret?

[grumbler]

The moment firemen on the way to the Grenfell Tower fire realize what they're up against:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/40332427/grenfell-tower-fire-moment-firefighters-first-saw-the-blaze

That's not flammable cladding, that's flash paper.

Now, now, no use jumping to conclusions, you must wait the obligatory 4 years whilst the inquiry report is written, then another 2 years whilst it's kicked into touch the other side of a general election. 

Rinse and repeat.

Oh drat thats already been done:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40330789

Four ministers were warned about tower block fire risks

Four separate government ministers were warned that fire regulations were not keeping people safe, in letters that have subsequently been seen by the BBC.

In the leaked letters, experts warn that those living in tower blocks like Grenfell Tower were "at risk".

At least 79 people are dead or missing presumed dead after the fire at the London high-rise last week.

The department that received the letters said work to improve regulation and safety had already been under way.

The letters show experts have been worried about fire safety in tower blocks for years.

Following a fatal fire in Lakanal House in south London in 2009, a series of recommendations were made to keep people safe.

They were ignored. The government promised a review of fire regulations in 2013, but it still has not happened.

BBC One's Panorama has obtained a dozen letters sent by the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group.

Informed by experts, it warned the government it "could not afford to wait for another tragedy".

Four ministers - all from the Department for Communities and Local Government - received letters but did not strengthen the regulations.

Ronnie King, a former chief fire officer who sits on the group, says the government has ignored repeated warnings about tower block safety.

"We have spent four years saying 'Listen, we have got the evidence, we've provided you with the evidence, there is clear public opinion towards this, you ought to move on this'," said Mr King.

After six people were killed at Lakanal House in 2009, the coroner made a series of safety recommendations for the government to consider.

The government department promised a review in 2013, but it was soon delayed.

In March 2014, the parliamentary group wrote: "Surely... when you already have credible evidence to justify updating... the guidance... which will lead to saving of lives, you don't need to wait another three years in addition to the two already spent since the research findings were updated, in order to take action?

"As there are estimated to be another 4,000 older tower blocks in the UK, without automatic sprinkler protection, can we really afford to wait for another tragedy to occur before we amend this weakness?"

After further correspondence, Liberal Democrat MP Steven Williams - who was then a minister in the department - replied: "I have neither seen nor heard anything that would suggest that consideration of these specific potential changes is urgent and I am not willing to disrupt the work of this department by asking that these matters are brought forward."

The group replied to say they "were at a loss to understand, how you had concluded that credible and independent evidence, which had life safety implications, was NOT considered to be urgent".

"As a consequence the group wishes to point out to you that should a major fire tragedy, with loss of life, occur between now and 2017 in, for example, a residential care facility or a purpose built block of flats, where the matters which had been raised here, were found to be contributory to the outcome, then the group would be bound to bring this to others' attention."

The letters were written before the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower.

One went to the-then Communities and Local Government Secretary Eric Pickles, who received a letter about fire regulations from the parliamentary group in February 2014.

He had also been asked to look at fire safety in February 2013 and March 2013 by two separate coroners, investigating two tower block fires.

In December 2015, the all-party group wrote to Conservative MP James Wharton, another minister in the department at the time, and warned about the risk of fires spreading on the outside of buildings with cladding.

"Today's buildings have a much higher content of readily available combustible material. Examples are timber and polystyrene mixes in structure, cladding and insulation.

"This fire hazard results in many fires because adequate recommendations to developers simply do not exist. There is little or no requirement to mitigate external fire spread."

The last of the four ministers in the department to receive a letter was Gavin Barwell, who has since moved on to become Theresa May's top aide. He received his letter from the parliamentary group in September last year.

In November, Mr Barwell replied to say his department had been looking at the regulations, and would make a statement "in due course".

In April this year, Mr Barwell wrote to say he did "acknowledge that producing a statement on building regulations has taken longer than I had envisaged".

The fire safety group pointed out that it had been "given a similar response by three successive ministers since 2010" and it "is now time to listen to what the Fire Sector is saying".

The government has said there is still no timetable for a review.

The Department for Communities and Local Government said that a police investigation into the Grenfell Fire is already under way "but it will be some time before it is fully understood how the fire started or why it took hold in the way it did."

In a statement, it added: "The government has acted to improve fire regulation and safety, including the recommendations made by the Coroner following the Lakanal House Fire.

"The final recommendation concerned simplification of fire safety guidance, and this work was under way, with a consultation due to be published this summer.

"Fire safety requirements are complex issues and our priority has been that we have high standards. A great deal of work has been completed, including commissioning and undertaking research to support the planned consultation. Clearly, in light of this tragic event, we need to reflect on whether this consultation is the correct next step to take. We will confirm our approach shortly."
Image copyright
AFP
Image caption
Well-wishers have been leaving tributes at Grenfell Tower

In a separate development, Panorama has discovered that firefighters put out the first fire at Grenfell Tower.

They were called to a fridge fire, and within minutes told residents the fire was out in the flat.

The crew was leaving the building when firefighters outside spotted flames rising up the side of the building.

The Fire Brigades Union say firefighters were left facing an unprecedented fire, and officers broke their own safety protocol to rescue people.

Why were the letters secret?

Where did you read that the letters were secret?

[jimmy olsen]

The moment firemen on the way to the Grenfell Tower fire realize what they're up against:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/40332427/grenfell-tower-fire-moment-firefighters-first-saw-the-blaze

That's not flammable cladding, that's flash paper.

Pretty much
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/20/grenfell-tower-firefighters-put-fridge-blaze-just-leaving-flats/

Grenfell Tower firefighters put out fridge blaze 'and were just leaving when flats erupted in flames'

Danny Boyle
20 JUNE 2017 • 2:34PM

Firefighters had put out the initial fridge fire at Grenfell Tower and were leaving the building when the blaze suddenly flared up, it has emerged.

Crews believed they had put out the fire at the London high-rise and were astonished to see flames rising up the side of the building, new reports have claimed.

Shortly after dealing with the fridge fire early last Wednesday, firefighters were telling residents that it was out, BBC Panorama reported.

But, soon after, the 24-storey building was consumed by flames in one of Britain's biggest ever tower block fires that left at least 79 people dead.

Panorama on Monday night reported that firefighters had seen flames "shooting up" the side of the building. Those reports will add weight to claims that it was the cladding on the exterior of Grenfell Tower that caused the fire to spread so rapidly.

But Dave Green, national officer at the Fire Brigades Union, said the first firefighters at the scene might not have expected the outside of the building to be flammable.

The union official said that 1970s buildings like Grenfell Tower were designed so each flat was a box that contained fire within itself, with a non-flammable concrete exterior.

Mr Green said: "Clearly it was a hot night and if the (fire) was fairly close to an open window then potentially the flames could have got outside - if there were net curtains, something like that, it could have got up.

"Then the cladding might well have been smouldering.

"As a firefighter you wouldn't have thought to look outside. We would assume that the outside of the building would not be compromised."

The programme also disclosed that leaked letters show how ministers were repeatedly warned that fire regulations were not keeping people safe.

It said letters show ministers were warned that people living in high rise blocks such as Grenfell Tower were "at risk".

The dozen letters, sent by the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group in the aftermath of a 2009 fatal fire in Lakanal House, south London, warned the Government "could not afford to wait for another tragedy", according to Panorama.

The Parliamentary group wrote in March 2014: "Surely ... when you already have credible evidence to justify updating ... the guidance ... which will lead to saving of lives, you don't need to wait another three years in addition to the two already spent since the research findings were updated, in order to take action?

"As there are estimated to be another 4,000 older tower blocks in the UK, without automatic sprinkler protection, can we really afford to wait for another tragedy to occur before we amend this weakness?"

After further correspondence, then government minister Liberal Democrat Stephen Williams, replied: "I have neither seen nor heard anything that would suggest that consideration of these specific potential changes is urgent and I am not willing to disrupt the work of this department by asking that these matters are brought forward."

The group replied: "We're at a loss to understand, how you had concluded that credible and independent evidence which had life safety implications, was NOT considered to be urgent.

"As a consequence the group wishes to point out to you that should a major fire tragedy, with loss of life, occur between now and 2017, in for example, a residential care facility or a purpose built block of flats, where the matters which had been raised here, were found to be contributory to the outcome, then the group would be bound to bring this to others' attention."

Former cabinet minister Sir Eric Pickles received a letter about fire regulations from the parliamentary group in February 2014, according to the BBC.

In December 2015, the all-party group wrote to the former Conservative minister James Wharton, and warned about the risk of fires spreading on the outside of buildings with cladding.

"Today's buildings have a much higher content of readily-available combustible material. Examples are timber and polystyrene mixes in structure, cladding and insulation.

"This fire hazard results in many fires because adequate recommendations to developers simply do not exist. There is little or no requirement to mitigate external fire spread."

Former Conservative minister Gavin Barwell, who was recently appointed Prime Minister Theresa May's chief of staff, received further calls for action in September last year.

In November 2016, Mr Barwell replied to say his department had been looking at the regulations, and would make a statement "in due course".

In April 2017 Mr Barwell wrote to say he did "acknowledge that producing a statement on building regulations has taken longer than I had envisaged", according to the BBC.

[Eddie Teach]

They may have just been after a bit of the old ultraviolence.

Typically rapists don't beat their victims to death with baseball bats.

EDIT: ... and none of the reports have mentioned sexual assault.

Well, yeah. It looks like a duck, but I'm ok with police making sure its not a goose before they say so.

[CountDeMoney]

I really wish some of these uncropped quotes were flammable.

[The Brain]

Where did you read that the letters were secret?

In the BBC article. It said the letters were leaked.

[derspiess]

Jezebel makes Ed's testicles crawl back up into his abdominal cavity, because they know they've been bad.

Seems like a good reason to post more links from Jezebel...

If only xojane.com were still active

[Jacob]

If only xojane.com were still active

Luckily Teen Vogue is still going strong

[garbon]

Jezebel makes Ed's testicles crawl back up into his abdominal cavity, because they know they've been bad.

Seems like a good reason to post more links from Jezebel...

If only xojane.com were still active

How about Jezebel on xoJane?

http://jezebel.com/the-biggest-moments-in-xojane-history-1791157774

The Biggest Moments in xoJane History

[Ed Anger]

If only xojane.com were still active

Luckily Teen Vogue is still going strong

I get all my news from Highlights.

[grumbler]

Where did you read that the letters were secret?

In the BBC article. It said the letters were leaked.

The article never said that they were secret.  Why would an organization trying to improve public safety keep their goals a secret?  "Leaked" just means that official information was released without authorization.

[The Brain]

Where did you read that the letters were secret?

In the BBC article. It said the letters were leaked.

The article never said that they were secret.  Why would an organization trying to improve public safety keep their goals a secret?  "Leaked" just means that official information was released without authorization.

You will have to forgive me for not swallowing your private definition of "leak". A definition that A) you probably made up on the spot in an attempt to "win" this discussion and B) contradicts major dictionaries.

[Eddie Teach]

Did Brain just take a leak on grumbler's definition of leak? 

[Jacob]

The Brain, it appears, does not swallow.