PewDiePie - troll, racist, both?

[Valmy]

Look at Trump. He's committed pretty well every sin that exists, and if he's forgotten a few, it is only for lack of opportunity - yet many on the right don't appear to give a damn.

Things were different in the 80s and 90s. The right used to take that stuff very seriously. Heck they once even made Trent Lott resign from the leadership when he talked about how everybody should have voted Dixiecrat in 1948.

[Tamas]

It is interesting.

I'd also add the popular manifestations of the fight against global warming. Nowadays you can add some extra funds to some purchases to make them "carbon neutral". That's exactly how indulgence papers worked.

Completely different.  Offsets do actually decrease carbon release somewhere in the world.  Indulgences just lined the pockets of the church.

[Malthus]

Look at Trump. He's committed pretty well every sin that exists, and if he's forgotten a few, it is only for lack of opportunity - yet many on the right don't appear to give a damn.

Things were different in the 80s and 90s. The right used to take that stuff very seriously. Heck they once even made Trent Lott resign from the leadership when he talked about how everybody should have voted Dixiecrat in 1948.

There just seems to be a huge degree of moral degeneration on the right in the US these days - and by that, I mean in their terms. It is like, for a sizable number of them, upright morality (as THEY define it, which is definitely not how I'd define it) just doesn't matter any more.

[The Brain]

It is interesting.

I'd also add the popular manifestations of the fight against global warming. Nowadays you can add some extra funds to some purchases to make them "carbon neutral". That's exactly how indulgence papers worked.

Completely different.  Offsets do actually decrease carbon release somewhere in the world.  Indulgences just lined the pockets of the church.

Only two people would know this about indulgences: God and Satan. Which is Yi?

[frunk]

There just seems to be a huge degree of moral degeneration on the right in the US these days - and by that, I mean in their terms. It is like, for a sizable number of them, upright morality (as THEY define it, which is definitely not how I'd define it) just doesn't matter any more.

The justification seems to be that, yes we have our moral failings, but the Democrats are evil!

[derspiess]

There just seems to be a huge degree of moral degeneration on the right in the US these days - and by that, I mean in their terms. It is like, for a sizable number of them, upright morality (as THEY define it, which is definitely not how I'd define it) just doesn't matter any more.

The justification seems to be that, yes we have our moral failings, but the Democrats are evil!

I think that's close to it.  Getting back to Trump-- he may be an unrepentent sinner, but at least he's staking out positions (publicly anyway) on the right side of the culture war.

Conversely, Bill Clinton was beloved by feminists and others on the left because of what was called his "public morality" (positions on abortion, etc.), in spite of the fact that he had harassed, took advantage of, and possibly raped women in his personal life.

[Valmy]

Conversely, Bill Clinton was beloved by feminists and others on the left because of what was called his "public morality" (positions on abortion, etc.), in spite of the fact that he had harassed, took advantage of, and possibly raped women in his personal life.

Boy is he not a popular man now though. But mostly for locking up all the black people and signing those evil free trade agreements.

And to be fair to the left the public did not really know how bad he was until after he had already been elected twice. We knew that about Trump years before he ever ran for office.

[Jacob]

I just think it is funny to see people who clearly don't believe in "sin" in other contexts, accept it in this.

It's a bit of a leap to go from making "a neat little observation" to claim that "the left" has accepted the idea of "sin" when it comes to the concept of racism.

I don't think "the left" has accepted it.

[derspiess]

Boy is he not a popular man now though. But mostly for locking up all the black people and signing those evil free trade agreements.

Is that widespread, though?  I'm sure he'd still do okay in opinion polls.

[Valmy]

Boy is he not a popular man now though. But mostly for locking up all the black people and signing those evil free trade agreements.

Is that widespread, though?  I'm sure he'd still do okay in opinion polls.

Not sure actually. The leftists who hate the Clintons hate them for mostly those reasons and are rather vocal. But I have a feeling those are the sort of puritanical ones you are talking about anyway.

[Malthus]

I just think it is funny to see people who clearly don't believe in "sin" in other contexts, accept it in this.

It's a bit of a leap to go from making "a neat little observation" to claim that "the left" has accepted the idea of "sin" when it comes to the concept of racism.

I don't think "the left" has accepted it.

Fine, you are correct: some on the left merely act as if they have. It is "like" the treatment of sin, without actually being an acceptance of sin. 

The other point, though, was that the right - many of whom are supposed to actually believe in actual sin - have apparently given up any thought of it, when it comes to 'their' politicians.

I personally don't think that this comparison puts the left in a worse light than the right. 

[Jacob]

Fine, you are correct: some on the left merely act as if they have. It is "like" the treatment of sin, without actually being an acceptance of sin. 

The other point, though, was that the right - many of whom are supposed to actually believe in actual sin - have apparently given up any thought of it, when it comes to 'their' politicians.

I personally don't think that this comparison puts the left in a worse light than the right. 

I am: mollified

... I think having lunch helped with that too.

[Barrister]

The other point, though, was that the right - many of whom are supposed to actually believe in actual sin - have apparently given up any thought of it, when it comes to 'their' politicians.

To be fair, those of the political right who believe in sin are almost certainly Christians.  And Christians believe in more about forgiveness than they do sin.

Not that Donald Trump for one ever claimed he needed to be forgiven for anything, but in other situations that might be a large part of the explanation.

[Valmy]

Sure they believe in forgiveness but only after you take responsibility for your actions...or at least that was supposed to be how it works.

[HVC]

The other point, though, was that the right - many of whom are supposed to actually believe in actual sin - have apparently given up any thought of it, when it comes to 'their' politicians.

To be fair, those of the political right who believe in sin are almost certainly Christians.  And Christians believe in more about forgiveness than they do sin.

Not that Donald Trump for one ever claimed he needed to be forgiven for anything, but in other situations that might be a large part of the explanation.

we know very different Christians