January 2021 - What state is America and the World in after Trump?

[viper37]

Hacking through the Democrats e-mails was a piece of cake.

Especially when it was a leak not a hack. 

they used a phishing technique, with a false e-mail.  Common technique used by russian mobsters, but usually, they simply encrypt your data and give you a password in exchange for payment.

[CountDeMoney]

Especially when it was a leak not a hack. 

Don't be a douchebag.

[mongers]

Ths time in 4 years, we'll be asking ourselves how the fuck that orange turd got re-elected.

Yeah, that's a real fear of mine and I'd guess a not insubstantial risk once people get normalised to his terrible personality and say 'he hasn't killed us all yet'.

[Grey Fox]

A Trudeau led Canada is firmly in the hands of Xi's China.

[dps]

Ths time in 4 years, we'll be asking ourselves how the fuck that orange turd got re-elected.

Yeah, that's a real fear of mine and I'd guess a not insubstantial risk once people get normalised to his terrible personality and say 'he hasn't killed us all yet'.

The risk is that either the Bernietards take over the Democratic Party or the Democratic establishment maintains control but nominates another candidate as weak as Hillary.

I'd like to think that Trump will face a primary challenge from within the Republican party, but I doubt it.  There are no doubt many that would like to challenge him, but I figure he's going to spend the next 3 years trying to destroy every potential Republican challenger that he can't co-opt.

[grumbler]

The risk is that either the Bernietards take over the Democratic Party or the Democratic establishment maintains control but nominates another candidate as weak as Hillary.

I'd like to think that Trump will face a primary challenge from within the Republican party, but I doubt it.  There are no doubt many that would like to challenge him, but I figure he's going to spend the next 3 years trying to destroy every potential Republican challenger that he can't co-opt.

I think you will see, pretty quickly, the rise of one or more Republicans who will stake their claim to fame precisely on being an enemy of Trump's.  Trump isn't a Republican, after all, and he has paid no dues to, and is owed no favors by, the rest of the Republican establishment.

I'm not sure where the Democrats are going to go.  If they're smart, they will move towards the center and try to find candidates that appeal more broadly and don't have scandals attached to them, like O'Malley or Webb.  I'm sure those type exist in the dozens.

[Barrister]

The risk is that either the Bernietards take over the Democratic Party or the Democratic establishment maintains control but nominates another candidate as weak as Hillary.

I'd like to think that Trump will face a primary challenge from within the Republican party, but I doubt it.  There are no doubt many that would like to challenge him, but I figure he's going to spend the next 3 years trying to destroy every potential Republican challenger that he can't co-opt.

I think you will see, pretty quickly, the rise of one or more Republicans who will stake their claim to fame precisely on being an enemy of Trump's.  Trump isn't a Republican, after all, and he has paid no dues to, and is owed no favors by, the rest of the Republican establishment.

I'm not sure where the Democrats are going to go.  If they're smart, they will move towards the center and try to find candidates that appeal more broadly and don't have scandals attached to them, like O'Malley or Webb.  I'm sure those type exist in the dozens.

I think there will come a time when the GOP turns decisively against Trump, but there's no gain in being even five minutes ahead of that curve.  Sadly any Republican who tries "stake their claim to fame" by being anti-Trump will pay a heavy price for not being "loyal".

[grumbler]

I think there will come a time when the GOP turns decisively against Trump, but there's no gain in being even five minutes ahead of that curve.  Sadly any Republican who tries "stake their claim to fame" by being anti-Trump will pay a heavy price for not being "loyal".

"Not being loyal" to whom?  I think that loyalty to the Republican party will, pretty quickly, be seen as more desirable than loyalty to Trump and his coterie.  The ones who are on the front line of that move will be the ones seen as leaders.  There will be no gain in being a follower when the realization hits that Trump is no Republican, and doesn't give a rat's ass for Republican values or goals.

[Barrister]

I think there will come a time when the GOP turns decisively against Trump, but there's no gain in being even five minutes ahead of that curve.  Sadly any Republican who tries "stake their claim to fame" by being anti-Trump will pay a heavy price for not being "loyal".

"Not being loyal" to whom?  I think that loyalty to the Republican party will, pretty quickly, be seen as more desirable than loyalty to Trump and his coterie.  The ones who are on the front line of that move will be the ones seen as leaders.  There will be no gain in being a follower when the realization hits that Trump is no Republican, and doesn't give a rat's ass for Republican values or goals.

I agree in part - at some point the GOP will realize that being associated with Trump is hurting them more than it is helping them, and a turn will happen.

But I disagree that those on the front line will be seen as leaders.  They will be seen as turncoats, even if later on proven to be correct.  In Parliamentary systems it's never the first to come out against the leader who wins.  Loyalty to the party itself is too high a virtue.

[Zanza]

Whoever thought the sun would come crashing down
My life in flames
My tears complete the pain
We fear the end
The dark as deep as river bed
[...]
Everything's gonna be alright (yeah)
Everything's gonna be okay (no doubt)
Everything's gonna be alright'
Together we can take this one day at a time

[Admiral Yi]

Plenty of Republican Senators have already crossed Donnie on email hacking.

[Barrister]

Plenty of Republican Senators have already crossed Donnie on email hacking.

Lots of Republicans havign spoken out against Trump on specific issues.

Since the election, no GOP politicians have spoken out against the Trump presidency writ-large.

[Habbaku]

I guess that depends on how you define that.  Ben Sasse has been very consistent in his anti-Trumpism.

[grumbler]

I agree in part - at some point the GOP will realize that being associated with Trump is hurting them more than it is helping them, and a turn will happen.

But I disagree that those on the front line will be seen as leaders.  They will be seen as turncoats, even if later on proven to be correct.  In Parliamentary systems it's never the first to come out against the leader who wins.  Loyalty to the party itself is too high a virtue.

Trump was the republican presidential candidate, not a leader of the Republican party.  I think your experience with parliamentary politics makes it hard for you to see how fundamentally different the presidential political system is.  Trump could run for the Republican nom even though he wasn't a Republican.  Sanders could run for the Democratic nom even though he's not a Democrat.  Republicans voted for Trump when the alternative was voting for a Democrat, but that doesn't make Trump a republican, nor does it mean that loyalty to him will be valued more than loyalty to Republican party members and values.

trump and Sanders have their core voters, those that value the candidate above any party, but that's not going to make party members choose to follow them when they go against party values.  Rules from the parliamentary system don't always apply.

[Barrister]

I agree in part - at some point the GOP will realize that being associated with Trump is hurting them more than it is helping them, and a turn will happen.

But I disagree that those on the front line will be seen as leaders.  They will be seen as turncoats, even if later on proven to be correct.  In Parliamentary systems it's never the first to come out against the leader who wins.  Loyalty to the party itself is too high a virtue.

Trump was the republican presidential candidate, not a leader of the Republican party.  I think your experience with parliamentary politics makes it hard for you to see how fundamentally different the presidential political system is.  Trump could run for the Republican nom even though he wasn't a Republican.  Sanders could run for the Democratic nom even though he's not a Democrat.  Republicans voted for Trump when the alternative was voting for a Democrat, but that doesn't make Trump a republican, nor does it mean that loyalty to him will be valued more than loyalty to Republican party members and values.

trump and Sanders have their core voters, those that value the candidate above any party, but that's not going to make party members choose to follow them when they go against party values.  Rules from the parliamentary system don't always apply.

We shall see who is right.

Ben Sasse was mentioned by Habs.  I took a look - he hasn't said anything critical of Trump really since the election.  Most newsworthy thing he's done is to urge John Lewis to attend the inauguration saying it's not just about Trump.

Many GOP lawmakers will do steps like that - take policy positions different than Trump, to create some distance between them.  But no one is talking in the language that many Republicans were using before the election - that he's categorically unfit for the Presidency.