California’s Nightmare Will Kill Obamanomics

[Jos Theelen]

Comparing state deficits and federal deficits is wrong.

It depends on the banking sector in that country. Most countries with big banking sectors (US, UK, Ireland, Iceland, Netherlands, etc) have done more or less the same as Obama did. The writer calls that "nobody"?? You could also read the opinion of Krugman, a economist, Nobelprice winner. Also a "nobody"? Obama handles a bail-out AND a stimulation program. You can disagree with it, but writing that he has no story is foolish. He may not have a Republican story, but his policies are quite common in Europe. Disagreeing is ok, imo. Making it sound foolish is foolish. Partisan rhetoric.

The Republicans should shut up. For two reasons. They are the main responsibles for the lack of regulations, a main reason of the problems. And when they shut up, as a reward they will receive the presidency over 3 years. Because this economic mess will take a lot longer than 3 years. Then they can try to solve the problems.

This "Republicans should shut up" line I keep hearing makes absolutely no fucking sense to me.  The potential negative consequences of an overly large deficit are not subject to a popularity contest, they don't go away if sufficiently large numbers of people are in favor of them.  They don't go away if the people issuing the warnings have low approval ratings or lost elections or cheated on their spouses or are opposed to gay marriage or are ugly. 

And if you didn't notice this story is not about TARP or the (first) stimulus bill, it's about the likelihood of passing health reform.  Will it cost money?  Of course.  Will Obama raise taxes to pay for it or will he pack it into the deficit?  The author is making the prediction that he won't raise taxes; if he's wrong he's wrong but a prediction is not partisan spin.

The republicans should shut up, when pretending a large budget deficit is a Democratic problem. A party who had the presidency for the last 8 years, always has a large responsebility for the economical and financial situation a country is in. And because there are only 2 parties in the USA, they bear the main responsebility.

The story is about the budget deficit. This is not only health care reform, but all of it together. He wrote "Obama administration is the most fiscally irresponsible in the history of the U.S". That's partisan spin.

[Admiral Yi]

The republicans should shut up, when pretending a large budget deficit is a Democratic problem. A party who had the presidency for the last 8 years, always has a large responsebility for the economical and financial situation a country is in. And because there are only 2 parties in the USA, they bear the main responsebility.

The story is about the budget deficit. This is not only health care reform, but all of it together. He wrote "Obama administration is the most fiscally irresponsible in the history of the U.S". That's partisan spin.

I agree that Republicans should shut up when pretending large budget deficits is a Democratic problem.  Thankfully that's not happening, either in this article or in the world at large.  This article is not a pitch to vote in Republicans because of their fiscal superiority, it's an analysis of the internal dynamics of the Democratic party and the effects of that dynamic on the likely outcome for health care reform.  Note that no where in the article does the author come out in favor or opposed to health care reform itself. 

The argument that Republicans ran large deficits for 8 years and caused the economic crisis so Obama can deficit spend as much as he wants to is a bankrupt one.  The demand for Treasury bonds is not a moral argument, investors are not going to say yeah let's keep interest rates low because it was all Bush's fault anyway.  If the Tory's had been in power for 8 years would the UK not be facing a credit rating downgrade?  Money doesn't care about moral authority or political mandates.

[Jos Theelen]

I never said that the Republican caused the economic crisis. But when the writer says that "Obama administration is the most fiscally irresponsible in the history of the U.S", you can be sure that I will look back and judge the way his party handled the economy and financial situation of the US.

It is typical Republican partisan rhetoric to write that the Democrats cannot handle governments finances. That they are spending to much. That's what they did and do for the last 40 years. There are enough articles on internet that investigate that claim and show it isn't true. The article is purely propaganda and you will see and hear a lot more of those stories in the coming 3 years. Google "Republican Democrats fiscal responsible" and you will see what I mean.

[Berkut]

Of course republicans say dems are fiscally irresponsible - after all, they are. And of course Republicans haven't shown much responsibility either.

But Obama has in fact taken things to anew and previously unimagined extreme. So the claim that he is the most fiscally irresponsible, while obviously rhetoric, is hardly indefensible.

What is indefensible, is claims like most of yours in this thread.

[Admiral Yi]

I never said that the Republican caused the economic crisis. But when the writer says that "Obama administration is the most fiscally irresponsible in the history of the U.S", you can be sure that I will look back and judge the way his party handled the economy and financial situation of the US.

It is typical Republican partisan rhetoric to write that the Democrats cannot handle governments finances. That they are spending to much. That's what they did and do for the last 40 years. There are enough articles on internet that investigate that claim and show it isn't true. The article is purely propaganda and you will see and hear a lot more of those stories in the coming 3 years. Google "Republican Democrats fiscal responsible" and you will see what I mean.

Actually the mantra of the last 40 or so years has been "tax and spend Democrats," but leaving that aside are you claiming that partisan rhetoric is always wrong?  Or that only Republican partisan rhetoric is wrong?

[viper37]

Yeah, it was the Republicans that insisted that Fannie and Freddie loan billions to poor people who cannot pay it back.

You just make yourself look more and more hysterically partisan with very post.

15% of all subprime loans were insured that way.  Not enough to create the problems we had.

[Berkut]

Yeah, it was the Republicans that insisted that Fannie and Freddie loan billions to poor people who cannot pay it back.

You just make yourself look more and more hysterically partisan with very post.

15% of all subprime loans were insured that way.  Not enough to create the problems we had.

Which is fine, since I am not the one claiming there is a singular source of our problems.

[Jos Theelen]

Actually the mantra of the last 40 or so years has been "tax and spend Democrats," but leaving that aside are you claiming that partisan rhetoric is always wrong?  Or that only Republican partisan rhetoric is wrong?

No, often both (Democrats and Republicans) are wrong. But they aren't worth reading and believing after so many times.

[Valmy]

"tax and spend Democrats,"

It is funny but today spending AND taxing sounds downright old fashioned and conservative.  It seems today the government just does that spending thing and doesn't bother with that whole taxing business.

[Berkut]

"tax and spend Democrats,"

It is funny but today spending AND taxing sounds downright old fashioned and conservative.  It seems today the government just does that spending thing and doesn't bother with that whole taxing business.

Well, I don't know about that. I think they are managing to tax me just fine.

[Valmy]

Well, I don't know about that. I think they are managing to tax me just fine.

But not anywhere near enough to cover expenses.

Thank you for the $8,000.00 check btw.  I was a first time homebuyer last month.

[Berkut]

Thank you for the $8,000.00 check btw.  I was a first time homebuyer last month.

Just goes to show how little we learn.

[Caliga]

Thank you for the $8,000.00 check btw.  I was a first time homebuyer last month.

Back when I first heard about this program I assumed people were going to figure out ways to exploit the fuck out of it.  Not that I'm accusing you of doing it, but it just came to mind since you brought the subject up.

[Valmy]

Back when I first heard about this program I assumed people were going to figure out ways to exploit the fuck out of it.  Not that I'm accusing you of doing it, but it just came to mind since you brought the subject up.

I am a bit embarrased to get the money frankly.  I was going to buy a house this year anyway it was just that time in my life to take the plunge.  It just so happened I bought it when the Democrats were in power.

But yes I am sure there are a bunch of way you could make it look like you are a first time homebuyer when you are really not, like some financial lender using the check as a downpayment in exchange for legally structuring the purchase in a way to pull that off.

[Caliga]

I don't think you should be embarassed to get it.

After all, government seems to almost intentionally screw the middle class at every turn, so why not take advantage of one of the few bones thrown your way?