UN's security council votes against Israel's settlements, US refuses to veto...

[alfred russel]

I think the politics of the settlement issue have failed to keep up with changing realities. There are now so many settlers it is not feasible to remove them from the west bank. Also there has been a lot of out migration of palestinians.

[Razgovory]

I think the politics of the settlement issue have failed to keep up with changing realities. There are now so many settlers it is not feasible to remove them from the west bank. Also there has been a lot of out migration of palestinians.

C'mon,history has shown us time and time again, it's quite feasible to move a large number of Jews out of their homes.

[CountDeMoney]

I think the politics of the settlement issue have failed to keep up with changing realities. There are now so many settlers it is not feasible to remove them from the west bank. Also there has been a lot of out migration of palestinians.

That was the whole point to dragging their asses on the issue.  Get it filled with so many settlements that there would be no going back. 

It's not like we haven't been dealing with this issue or the Israelis haven't been promising to pull out of the territories or anything.  Oh wait, there it is, right there in black and white in the Camp David Accords from, oh, 1979.

Everybody excoriated Yasser Arafat--and rightfully so, at times--for being offered 95% of what the Palestinians always demanded and still turned it down at Oslo, and yet the Israelis can't be criticized for their part in stonewalling the peace process.

[viper37]

a military alliance hostile to Russia.

not anymore. Well, ok, for less than a month.

[grumbler]

I think the politics of the settlement issue have failed to keep up with changing realities. There are now so many settlers it is not feasible to remove them from the west bank. Also there has been a lot of out migration of palestinians.

That was the whole point to dragging their asses on the issue.  Get it filled with so many settlements that there would be no going back. 

It's not like we haven't been dealing with this issue or the Israelis haven't been promising to pull out of the territories or anything.  Oh wait, there it is, right there in black and white in the Camp David Accords from, oh, 1979.

Everybody excoriated Yasser Arafat--and rightfully so, at times--for being offered 95% of what the Palestinians always demanded and still turned it down at Oslo, and yet the Israelis can't be criticized for their part in stonewalling the peace process.

Yeah, that's one of the areas where Israel's interests see them acting contrary to US national interests - I don't think Israel has been serious about negotiating a settlement to the Palestine issue since Taba.  They see no reason to compromise on the issue, because they know the US will back them if it comes to the crunch, and Israel can get everything it wants be simply refusing to allow any progress.  It's a model the republicans in Congress have followed since Obama got elected: block progress and hope the other side just gives up.

Frankly, this Israelis would be dumb to seek de jure peace; de facto peace gives them everything they want without any of the cost.

[Scipio]

Israel will never have to shit or get off the pot, unless we disentangle from them.

[CountDeMoney]

They were more fun when they were the punky Little Nation That Could, hanging on by a thread and beset on all sides by enemies yet kicking their asses over and over, and in the meantime pulling off great feats of derring-do like Operation Bayonet, Entebbe and Osirak. 

But since Lebanon '82, they've been the neighborhood bullies and completely tone-deaf about it, as if it's still '48. And screaming about our support, like that's ever going to go away. i mean, c'mon.

But things like abstentions in the UN is necessary if we're going to at least appear to be an impartial participant in the peace process.

[dps]

Israel will never have to shit or get off the pot, unless we disentangle from them.

As long as we give them unconditional backing, they're more likely to double down than anything else.  Trump is probably going to give them a move of our embassy to Jerusalem, which will be a huge symbolic thing.

[grumbler]

As long as we give them unconditional backing, they're more likely to double down than anything else.  Trump is probably going to give them a move of our embassy to Jerusalem, which will be a huge symbolic thing.

Yep, and he's promised to move the embassy without getting anything in return.  You can kinda understand why he's gone bankrupt so many times.  Still can't understand why anyone voted for him, but that understanding may come.

[jimmy olsen]

Also there has been a lot of out migration of palestinians.

Where to?

[Phillip V]

Also there has been a lot of out migration of palestinians.

Where to?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians#Demographics

[OttoVonBismarck]

The Israel-Palestine situation is so weird to me because it's been so indecisive. Israel is by no means the only country to win a war and basically seize territory in the UN era. In fact Israel's actions are a lot less egregious than China's in Tibet or Russia's in Crimea (or even Georgia or Moldova, albeit it didn't annex land there.) But I'd argue even Crimea is already significantly "more resolved" than the Palestinian lands have ever been.

I think in part the reason is, despite frequent criticisms Israel has behaved with a lot more restraint in Palestine than any major power ever would've. Probably in part because the US has always bought into a misguided policy that we should use our status as Israel's greatest benefactor to push for Israeli restraint. Probably out of a misguided view that we could ever be friends with most of the Middle Eastern Islamists.

[jimmy olsen]

Also there has been a lot of out migration of palestinians.

Where to?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians#Demographics

Half a million in Chile!?

[Tonitrus]

Also there has been a lot of out migration of palestinians.

Where to?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians#Demographics

Half a million in Chile!?

From my little bit of Googling, it appears that population mostly stems from the Christian Palestinians, starting from the mid-19th century through the creation of Israel.

[The Larch]

Nuance doesn't seem to be en vogue at Bibi's cabinet...

Netanyahu 'told New Zealand backing UN vote would be declaration of war'

Israeli PM reportedly warned that support for motion on settlements would 'rupture relations' between two countries


Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly told New Zealand's foreign minister that support for a UN resolution condemning Israeli settlement-building in the occupied territories would be viewed as a "declaration of war".

According to reports in Israeli media, the Israeli PM called Murray McCully, the foreign minister of New Zealand, before Friday's resolution, which was co-sponsored by Wellington. Netanyahu told him: "This is a scandalous decision. I'm asking that you not support it and not promote it.

"If you continue to promote this resolution, from our point of view it will be a declaration of war. It will rupture the relations and there will be consequences. We'll recall our ambassador [from New Zealand] to Jerusalem."

McCully, however, refused to back down, telling Netanyahu: "This resolution conforms to our policy and we will move it forward."

A western diplomat confirmed that the call took place and described the conversation as "harsh".

The details of the call – disclosed in Haaretz – suggest a mounting sense of panic on the part of Netanyahu in the run-up to the UN security council resolution that passed on Friday demanding an end to settlement building.

As well as the Netanyahu call, a senior official in Israel's foreign ministry called New Zealand's ambassador to Israel, Jonathan Curr, and warned that if the resolution came to a vote, Israel might close its embassy in Wellington in protest.

Israel responded furiously to the vote, threatening diplomatic reprisals against the countries that voted in favour. Diplomatic ties with New Zealand were temporarily severed and ambassador Itzhak Gerberg was recalled.

But in a sign that the international pressure may be being felt by the Netanyahu administration, scheduled plans to consider for approval 600 new settlement houses in occupied east Jerusalem were abruptly removed from the agenda of the city's municipality on Wednesday.

Netanyahu's language and behaviour – which has resulted in ambassadors being reprimanded and consultations with foreign leaders, including the UK's Theresa May, cancelled – has raised eyebrows among foreign diplomats, who point out that the UN resolution does no more than confirm the longstanding view of the international community on Jewish settlements.