Ireland compensates woman forced to travel to Britain for an abortion

[Josquius]

My grandmother died because she had to get a back alley abortion; she had developed a medical problem that couldn't be operated on whilst she was pregnant. Her chances of death were pretty high if she had tried to bring the baby to term. My dad has no memory of her as a result, for his older siblings... it was much worse. In his last years my grandad wouldn't talk to one of my cousins because of her black boyfriend since it was a (heroic) West Indian doctor involved in the abortion.
And some people want this to happen in the 21st century?
Fuck those people.

I wonder when Ireland will finally legalise abortion. In recent decades Ireland has it seems broken records for the drop in religiosity (what harm a bit of kiddy fiddling can do...).

[Jacob]

Meri is right. End of story.

[viper37]

But to do either of those things is to, once again, grant women bodily autonomy with the right to have sex when, where, and with whom she wants. And we can't have that, can we?

that will be the end of society as we know it.  Things might get bad really quickly.  As bad as Western Europe and Canada... 

Very good argument.  I never thought of it this way.  But it didn't change my opinion either, it's not my business what a woman does with her body.

[Valmy]

Meri is right. End of story.

Unfortunately it isn't. At least not for millions of women down in my neck of the woods.

[garbon]

Meri is right. End of story.

Unfortunately it isn't. At least not for millions of women down in my neck of the woods.

Or those in Ireland.

[Jacob]

Meri is right. End of story.

Unfortunately it isn't. At least not for millions of women down in my neck of the woods.

That doesn't make Meri any less right.

Do you think your "it's not black and white" position helps or hinders the millions of women down in your neck of the woods?

[Valmy]

Do you think your "it's not black and white" position helps or hinders the millions of women down in your neck of the woods?

I would say it is not relevant. The Supreme Court ruled and it is being undermined by the hard core supporters on the other side. Nobody I supported anyway. I send a monthly donation to Planned Parenthood FYI.

And yes I don't think abortions of potentially viable 3rd trimester babies is necessarily absolutely awesome. There might be some give and take and negotiation that should take place. But that is not what is happening. Abortion clinics are being shut down and SHAME SHAME SHAME laws are being passed. Nobody is consulting people like me about this topic. It is, presently, entirely binary.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I think you would like our law in England. The limit is 24 weeks unless the health of the mother is at risk. The vast majority are performed on the NHS pre-16 weeks. Importantly it is a law that has general support.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_Kingdom


It is an area that has avoided polarisation here so far, I hope that continues.

[merithyn]

And yes I don't think abortions of potentially viable 3rd trimester babies is necessarily absolutely awesome. There might be some give and take and negotiation that should take place. But that is not what is happening. Abortion clinics are being shut down and SHAME SHAME SHAME laws are being passed. Nobody is consulting people like me about this topic. It is, presently, entirely binary.

I'm so sick of the whole "viable babies are killed in the 3rd trimester" argument. It's total BS.

Third trimester abortions are incredibly rare, and nearly always only to protect the mother's health or because the baby isn't going to live anyway. The vast majority of abortions - >91% of them according to PP - take place prior to 20 weeks pregnancy (viability is considered 26 weeks for most doctors), and those done in the 20-24 week margin are around 8% of all abortions performed. (http://www.npr.org/2006/02/21/5168163/partial-birth-abortion-separating-fact-from-spin)

And the women that I've met who are against abortion rights are typically the worst of the "let them pay for their sins!" type. They managed to get to adulthood without making a mistake, so therefore, those who did should have to pay for it.

[merithyn]

I think you would like our law in England. The limit is 24 weeks unless the health of the mother is at risk. The vast majority are performed on the NHS pre-16 weeks. Importantly it is a law that has general support.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_Kingdom


It is an area that has avoided polarisation here so far, I hope that continues.

So many reasons to move to the UK....

[Barrister]

I think you would like our law in England. The limit is 24 weeks unless the health of the mother is at risk. The vast majority are performed on the NHS pre-16 weeks. Importantly it is a law that has general support.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_Kingdom


It is an area that has avoided polarisation here so far, I hope that continues.

As opposed to Canada, where Parliament in the mid-80s decided that making a law on abortion was too hard, so they just gave up.  There are no legal restrictions on abortions of any kind anywhere in Canada.

[merithyn]

As opposed to Canada, where Parliament in the mid-80s decided that making a law on abortion was too hard, so they just gave up.  There are no legal restrictions on abortions of any kind anywhere in Canada.

I wonder what the stats up there are on later-term abortions.

Remarkably, the numbers are very similar to US rates when looking at when abortions take place:

Table 4: Number and Percentage Distribution of Induced Abortions* Reported
by Canadian Hospitals†
(Excluding Quebec) in 2010, by Gestational Age in weeks

≤8            8,300                   30.1%
9–12       11,191                  40.6%
13–16       1,794                    6.5%
17–20           846                   3.1%
21+              537                    1.9%
Unknown    4,908                 17.8%
Total         27,576               100.0%

https://www.cihi.ca/en/ta_10_alldatatables20120417_en.pdf

[Valmy]

I'm so sick of the whole "viable babies are killed in the 3rd trimester" argument. It's total BS.

Well if it ever becomes relevant we might debate that at some point. It is not even an argument per se, I was just saying where a line might hypothetically be drawn. If anybody were into drawing lines.

But right now it is, as I said, entirely binary. So it doesn't matter.

[Valmy]

So many reasons to move to the UK....

I don't get it. You are as likely to become pregnant as I am.

[merithyn]

So many reasons to move to the UK....

I don't get it. You are as likely to become pregnant as I am.

You don't get it. It's not about whether or not I can end a pregnancy. It's about whether or not I'm considered a fully functioning adult worthy of the same treatments and rights as you are. And right now, in the US, I'm not. This is a symptom, not the disease.