Ireland compensates woman forced to travel to Britain for an abortion

[garbon]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/30/ireland-compensates-abortion-amanda-mellet-britain

Government agreed to pay compensation for trauma to Amanda Mellet after she was forced to obtain a termination of her pregnancy in England

Ireland has for the first time in its history compensated a woman for the trauma caused by forcing her to travel to Britain for an abortion.

Pro-choice campaigners in the Republic said the Fine Gael-led minority government's agreement on Wednesday to pay compensation to Amanda Mellet was highly significant.

Mellet and her husband James took their case all the way to the UN's Human Rights Committee after the couple were forced to obtain a termination of her pregnancy in England.

In 2013 Amanda Mellet became the first of three Irish women to formally ask the UN to denounce the prohibition on abortions in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities as "cruel and inhumane".

Under Ireland's strict anti-abortion laws, if Mellet and the other two women had remained in the Republic they would have been forced to give birth to babies who would be born dead.

Campaigners arguing for a referendum to repeal an amendment to the Irish constitution that gives full citizenship rights to the embryo after conception welcomed today's decision by the Dublin government.

Ailbhe Smyth, convenor of the Coalition to Repeal the Eighth Amendment and a longtime campaigner on reproductive rights, said: "To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time ever that the Irish government has compensated a woman for having to leave the country for an abortion. This is long overdue acknowledgement of the profound denial of women's right to autonomy in this country."

"The government must immediately ensure no other woman suffers similar human rights violations. The eighth amendment is a profound source of discrimination and national shame for Ireland. It is simply not good enough to pass the book to the Citizen's Assembly and not make any commitment to undertake the necessary constitutional and legislative reforms to end, once and for all, Ireland's violation of international human rights law and obligations under human rights conventions and treaties.

"We cannot, as a country, continue to oversee the violation of women's human rights. We're saying that women deserve better and Ireland can do much better."

In June the UNHRC ruled that by forcing Amanda Mellet to leave Ireland for an abortion in Britain, the Irish state had inflicted trauma and distress on her.

Ivana Bacik, an Irish Labour party senator and long term campaigner for abortion reform in Ireland, said the government's decision to accept the UNHRC ruling was a crucial step towards changing Ireland's abortion regime.

The Trinity College Dublin law lecturer said: "The UN Human Rights Committee's ruling in June of this year constituted an important acknowledgement that the highly restrictive Irish law on abortion violates the human rights of women. The government's acceptance of the ruling through the announcement of the compensation award, and Minister Harris's sincerity in apologising to Ms Mellet, are both welcome.

"But we need now to see official recognition that thousands of other women are being denied their basic human rights through being denied access to legal abortion in Ireland, due to the eighth amendment to the constitution. The UNHRC ruling in favour of Ms Mellet made clear the need for us to hold a referendum to repeal the eighth amendment."

[Eddie Teach]

"cruel and inhumane".

Coalition to Repeal the Eighth Amendment

But is it unusual? 

[Valmy]

Entering England is traumatic for Irish people. I have to say it makes no sense to outlaw abortion and then turn around and fund people's abortion trips abroad. But claiming abortion as a human right might be taking things too far, in most Euro countries aren't there limitations on abortions?

Also, why England? I guess similar laws exist in Northern Ireland?

[Grinning_Colossus]

Also, why England? I guess similar laws exist in Northern Ireland?

Abortion is also illegal in Ulster. The one thing the Catholics and Prots could agree on.

[Valmy]

Also, why England? I guess similar laws exist in Northern Ireland?

Abortion is also illegal in Ulster. The one thing the Catholics and Prots could agree on.

Federalism reigns in Her Majesty's Domains I see.

[merithyn]

Let's break this down, shall we?

Entering England is traumatic for Irish people.

A woman is told that the child inside her is going to die. That it is malformed and isn't ever going to take a breath. She - and presumably her husband - were planning for a child in their lives, and instead have been told that this isn't going to happen for them. This is traumatic for most people in this situation.

But we're going to compound that with requiring - by law - that this woman continue to carry the pregnancy to term. Alternatively, she can leave her country and travel somewhere else entirely, among people she doesn't know instead of her own doctor who knows her and is aware of her circumstances. She's already in a very emotionally precarious state, mind you. So yes, this is traumatic.

I have to say it makes no sense to outlaw abortion and then turn around and fund people's abortion trips abroad.

It appears that they have been sued and this is part of the recompense. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but that's how I see it.

But claiming abortion as a human right might be taking things too far,

They are, in fact, claiming that women have a right to be their own people first and incubators second. Bodily autonomy is absolutely a human right. Or it should be.

in most Euro countries aren't there limitations on abortions?

This has been a way to appease those who refuse to grant women full bodily autonomy. It does not, in my opinion, make it right.

Also, why England? I guess similar laws exist in Northern Ireland?

She was traveling somewhere to terminate a presumably wished-for pregnancy. Where she chose to go doesn't really matter, does it? But even so, a ferry ride from Dublin to Liverpool is probably easier than a drive up to Northern Ireland.

[Valmy]

They are, in fact, claiming that women have a right to be their own people first and incubators second. Bodily autonomy is absolutely a human right. Or it should be.

I am undecided either way. I don't think it is absolutely that black and white. Ideally we should be working together to find stronger birth control technology to actually give women that right instead of having this grey area where we have rights for the incubators and the rights of the incubatee conflicting. But I have stated my opinion on that matter and I am endlessly frustrated "pro-life" people also seem to block that avenue.

But in any case I was only speaking of how their tactics might be effective in overturning the eighth amendment of the Irish Constitution from a political perspective. Taking such an extreme position might make that difficult.

She was traveling somewhere to terminate a presumably wished-for pregnancy. Where she chose to go doesn't really matter, does it? But even so, a ferry ride from Dublin to Liverpool is probably easier than a drive up to Northern Ireland.

No it does not. I was merely curious if the abortion laws were different in England and Northern Ireland.

It appears that they have been sued and this is part of the recompense. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but that's how I see it.

True. But last I checked suing should be based on laws and statutes correct?

A woman is told that the child inside her is going to die. That it is malformed and isn't ever going to take a breath. She - and presumably her husband - were planning for a child in their lives, and instead have been told that this isn't going to happen for them. This is traumatic for most people in this situation.

But we're going to compound that with requiring - by law - that this woman continue to carry the pregnancy to term. Alternatively, she can leave her country and travel somewhere else entirely, among people she doesn't know instead of her own doctor who knows her and is aware of her circumstances. She's already in a very emotionally precarious state, mind you. So yes, this is traumatic.

Obviously it would be. I was being silly.

[garbon]

Yes NI is also punitive on abortion. There was the story earlier this year about the teen whose roommates turned her in when she did a DIY abortion at home. They turned her in because she reportedly did not show enough remorse.  Of course, she went DIY rather than try to afford expense of flying to England.

edit: here's link to when I posted that article.

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,13860.msg965393/topicseen.html#msg965393

In fact, you even commented on it.

[Valmy]

Wow. That is terrible. Right out of Mississippi.

I was glad my wife and sister got their abortions before Texas started to adopt the SHAME SHAME SHAME laws. This was obviously long before I met my wife.

[merithyn]

I have a simple litmus test on this one.

• Do you believe that a person should be required to give up his kidney - by law - to save his brother's life?
• Do you believe that it should be required by law that everyone donate blood once a month?
• Do you believe that there should be a required universal donor law where all those in death must be donors if possible?

If you think that any or all of the above are wrong, but you question a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy, then you need to think long and hard about what you really believe. Because right now, women are being required to continue a life-threatening situation - by law - because they are not seen as having the same right to say no as everyone else does about the above situations.

And yeah, the smartest way to alleviate - or at least minimize - abortions is education and free birth control. But to do either of those things is to, once again, grant women bodily autonomy with the right to have sex when, where, and with whom she wants. And we can't have that, can we?

For pro-Life advocates, it's truly about controlling a woman's body in every possible way. They cry "what about the children", but they mean "that slut needs to pay for her sin".

[Valmy]

In fact, you even commented on it.

I lack Raz's excellent memory of all past Languish threads.

For pro-Life advocates, it's truly about controlling a woman's body in every possible way. They cry "what about the children", but they mean "that slut needs to pay for her sin".

For the hardest hard core this is true and it is really frustrating. But there is a squishy group that can be won over by the "what about the children" claims (or claims by the other side), and that is usually what decides the matter in these cases.

[merithyn]

For the hardest hard core this is true and it is really frustrating. But there is a squishy group that can be won over by the "what about the children" claims (or claims by the other side), and that is usually what decides the matter in these cases.

And that infuriates me. What about the mother? Shouldn't her actual life rank higher than some potential for life?

I have a friend fighting for her life right now because she gave birth. She chose to get pregnant and to have the child, but what if she hadn't? What about all of those women whose lives are irrevocably changed - physically, emotionally, and mentally - because they were forced to carry a baby to term?

Sorry. This isn't against you, Valmy. It's just a sore point at the moment.

[Eddie Teach]

Do you believe that a person should be required to give up his kidney - by law - to save his brother's life?

As much as I'd love a kidney, it is possible to go on without them.

[Valmy]

For the hardest hard core this is true and it is really frustrating. But there is a squishy group that can be won over by the "what about the children" claims (or claims by the other side), and that is usually what decides the matter in these cases.

And that infuriates me. What about the mother? Shouldn't her actual life rank higher than some potential for life?

I have a friend fighting for her life right now because she gave birth. She chose to get pregnant and to have the child, but what if she hadn't? What about all of those women whose lives are irrevocably changed - physically, emotionally, and mentally - because they were forced to carry a baby to term?

Sorry. This isn't against you, Valmy. It's just a sore point at the moment.

Don't worry. It wouldn't be the first time this year I have been hammered for my abortion views. Did I mention I am partially responsible for the holocaust of the 21st century? 

[merithyn]

Do you believe that a person should be required to give up his kidney - by law - to save his brother's life?

As much as I'd love a kidney, it is possible to go on without them.

Not always.

https://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/