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Is this true? Black slave masters

Started by Siege, November 16, 2016, 07:32:16 AM

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Siege


I knew about the muslim slave trade, obviously, but thoae numbers for America seem high to me.
Can anyone confirm or deny?
Thanks.

"
Fact 1: The first official slave owner in America was an Angolan who adopted the European name of Anthony Johnson. He was sold to slave traders in 1621 by an enemy tribe in his native Africa, and was registered as "Antonio, a Negro" in the official records of the Colony of Virginia. He went to work for a white farmer as an indentured servant.

Prior to 1654, all Africans in the thirteen colonies were held in indentured servitude and were released after a contracted period with many of the indentured receiving land and equipment after their contracts for work expired. Johnson would later take ownership of a large plot of farmland after the expiration of his contract and, using the skills he had learned during his indentured labor service, Johnson became moderately successful.

By July 1651 Johnson had five indentured servants of his own. In 1664, he brought a case before Virginia courts in which he contested a suit launched by one of his indentured servants, a Negro who adopted the name of John Casor. Johnson won the suit and retained Casor as his servant for life, who thus became the first official and true slave in America.

Thus the accusation that whites "started slavery" in America is utterly untrue: blacks in Africa sold each other as slaves, and the first true lifelong slave in America was owned by a black man, not a white.

Fact 2: The transatlantic slave trade was dwarfed by the Arab or Muslim slave trade, which lasted from 650 AD to 1900 AD. It is estimated that a minimum of 18 million Africans were enslaved by Arab slave traders, and that over one million Europeans were enslaved by the Muslim world during the same period.

The Muslim slave trade saw Africans exported to regions throughout the Middle East and even to India, while the Europeans were captured in raids in Spain, Italy, France, Britain, and Ireland. These raids were launched from North Africa, and during the Islamic occupation of Iberia and southern Italy, from the latter regions as well.

The invasion of southeastern Europe by the Ottoman Turks saw even more Europeans enslaved into the Muslim world—but their numbers are unknown.

The Muslim trade in slaves, both black and white, was therefore longer lasting and far more extensive than the transatlantic slave trade—but there are today no cries of "Arab guilt" or demands for reparations against Muslim nations.

Fact 3: James Oglethorpe (1696–1785) was a British general who founded the colony of Georgia in 1732. From the very beginning, Oglethorpe ensured that slavery was banned in the colony, and that Africans were barred from entering the territory. The colony's founding charter also forbid Roman Catholicism from being established in the region.

It was only in 1750, after Oglethorpe had left the colony, that the ban on slavery was lifted.

Fact 4: Many free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large.

In 1830, a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more.

According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slave holding states.

Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. Black Duke University professor John Hope Franklin recorded that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

In 1860 there were at least six Negroes in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves. The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation.

Another Negro slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at (in 1860 dollars) $264,000.

In Charleston, South Carolina in 1860, 125 free Negroes owned slaves; six of them owning 10 or more. Of the $1.5 million in taxable property owned by free Negroes in Charleston, more than $300,000 represented slave holdings. In North Carolina 69 free Negroes were slave owners.

Fact 5: In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the US census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.

The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves. Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

The figures show conclusively that, when free, blacks disproportionately became slave masters in pre-Civil War America. The statistics outlined above show that about 28 percent of free blacks owned slaves—as opposed to less than 4.8 percent of southern whites, and dramatically more than the 1.4 percent of all white Americans who owned slaves.

The fact is, there is plenty of shame to be spread around concerning slavery. Let us not forget the 500,000 Americans who died putting and end to it."


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Caliga

Is what true?   That there were some free blacks who owned slaves?  Yes, that's true.
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Lettow77

Louisiana's comparatively high number of slave-owning blacks (frequently mulattoes, mind you) was well known at the time. Louisiana was an exotic and decadent place.

Blacks, when free, being disproportionately likely to be slavemasters is a little misleading. Most blacks were in the South, after all, and if they were free they had a good chance of not being poor. Slaves were the sign of wealth in the South.
It can't be helped...We'll have to use 'that'

Valmy

Quote from: Caliga on November 16, 2016, 07:45:00 AM
Is what true?   That there were some free blacks who owned slaves?  Yes, that's true.

Large amounts of mixed race in Haiti were slave owners. I thought that was generally known,
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote from: Lettow77 on November 16, 2016, 08:26:04 AM
Louisiana's comparatively high number of slave-owning blacks (frequently mulattoes, mind you) was well known at the time. Louisiana was an exotic and decadent place.

This was common in French Caribbean colonies.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Siege

Quote from: Caliga on November 16, 2016, 07:45:00 AM
Is what true?   That there were some free blacks who owned slaves?  Yes, that's true.

I mean, that proportionally so many free blacks owned slaves. 28% of free blacks owning slaves seem high to me when you keep in mind that prejudices against blacks would still be predominant regardless of economic success.


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Martinus

Similarly, there were Jewish guards in ghettos and concentration camps, and closeted gay people who persecuted gays. Human capacity for being a lowlife is boundless.

alfred russel

Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 09:01:30 AM
Human capacity for being a lowlife is boundless.

Spoken like a true authority. :)
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

CountDeMoney

Well, there you have it.  Slavery: debunked.  Sorry, niggers.  QQ MOAR PLZ

grumbler

The first slave in America was John Punch, owned by a European, Hugh Gwyn.

The numbers are tricked out quite a bit in this story.  There were 393,975 slaveowners in the 1860 census (not 'fewer than 385,000") and, while they represented a small fraction of the total population, they represented a substantial portion of the families (46% of the families in South Carolina, the highest).

I mean, of course "only a small minority of whites owned slaves" in 1860.  Only a small minority were even adults in states where owning slaves was possible!
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Berkut

Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2016, 09:01:30 AM
Similarly, there were Jewish guards in ghettos and concentration camps, and closeted gay people who persecuted gays. Human capacity for being a lowlife is boundless.

Indeed. Marty is kind to point out to us regularly that being a member of a minority that commonly is the victim of bigotry and intolerance does not at all insulate the victim from being bigoted and intolerant of other minorities.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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grumbler

Quote from: Siege on November 16, 2016, 08:45:42 AM
Quote from: Caliga on November 16, 2016, 07:45:00 AM
Is what true?   That there were some free blacks who owned slaves?  Yes, that's true.

I mean, that proportionally so many free blacks owned slaves. 28% of free blacks owning slaves seem high to me when you keep in mind that prejudices against blacks would still be predominant regardless of economic success.

That 28% number is totally false. In South Carolina, for instance, there were an estimated 9000 free blacks in 1860 (estimated, because the census didn't actually record "race," just demographic data and status as free or slave).  Using the same 5-person average as the census shows for white families, that gives is about 1800 families.  The article mentions that 125 of them owned slaves in Charleston.  That's about 7 percent.  Even if they represent only half the slave owning free blacks in South Carolina, that doesn't even reach half the claimed 28% (which was for New Orleans only, anyway).

Louisiana is always going to represent an outlier in American slavery anyway, as it was French or Spanish until just 58 years before the Civil War started.   Those countries had a different outlook on free blacks and slavery.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Razgovory

I got as far as "Fact 1".  That's a lie.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Caliga

Siege, what difference does it make to you (or should make to any of us) what proportion of free blacks owned slaves?  I don't understand the point you're trying to make... or maybe you just saw something you thought was interesting, wanted to share it with us, and there's no other motivation here? :hmm:
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derspiess

I'm not Siege, but to me it's just one of those interesting historical quirks that contradicts the general narrative. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall