2017 impeachment - because it's never too early

[Valmy]

I never supported Trump either. Saying that Trump is not the Antichrist incarnate to a bunch of morons perceiving the world as a Manichean struggle is not the same as supporting him.

I don't think Trump is the Antichrist incarnate. I simply thought his policies were bad and that he was completely unqualified. I never once noticed you do anything but act like a fucking asshole the whole time. Trolling and amping people up, so save this 'oh I was just trying to be reasonable' bullshit. Fucking liar. You are only taking this position now as another bullshit trolling tactic.

[Valmy]

My move to the "right" was largely caused by me being repelled by the mainstream left adopting the "alt left" positions on things such as safe spaces, trigger warnings, language policing and general hostility they seem to hold against various views informed by liberty.

Censorship, enforcement of "right" thinking and generally bullying people for holding unpopular views have always been illiberal positions that used to be imposed by conservatives (and the main reason why I disliked conservatism - and still dislike it in countries like Poland or Russia). The fact that a certain part of the left, upon winning the cultural war, adopted such attitudes in the West was very disappointing (although, in retrospect, not really surprising).

I agree. But that certain part of the left got radicalized by the culture war. They certainly do not perceive they have won, there will always be another group to champion. But it is certainly another example of making the perfect the enemy of the good which is has been their hallmark. They will keep driving.

But it is not like the right doesn't stoke the flames by doing things like passing bathroom legislation in NC. You couldn't have planned something better to empower the other side.

[garbon]

I never supported Trump either. Saying that Trump is not the Antichrist incarnate to a bunch of morons perceiving the world as a Manichean struggle is not the same as supporting him.

I don't think Trump is the Antichrist incarnate. I simply thought his policies were bad and that he was completely unqualified. I never once noticed you do anything but act like a fucking asshole the whole time. Trolling and amping people up, so save this 'oh I was just trying to be reasonable' bullshit. Fucking liar. You are only taking this position now as another bullshit trolling tactic.

[Berkut]

Marty is a liar, but he isn't trolling either.

Look back over his history on Languish. He didn't really "move" at all, it is just that Trump in some keys ways fell right into a space where Marty has always been sitting quite comfortably.

He is a bigot, and has always been a bigot. He goes ballistic if HIS particular demographic is ever seen as being discriminated against, and then is the consistent first in line when it comes to treating other groups with contempt. Fat people, ugly people, religious people, whatever. He is always right there ready to cheer on the bullies.

The classic bully is never alone - they always have their sycophants and followers egging them on and getting personal validation through their desperate need to be part of the "accepted" group, which by definition requires a "not accepted" group to treat with contempt. The little shit without the balls to engage themselves standing next to (and just behind) the bully cheering them on?

That's Marty. That has always been Marty.

This is not new.

[mongers]

I never supported Trump either. Saying that Trump is not the Antichrist incarnate to a bunch of morons perceiving the world as a Manichean struggle is not the same as supporting him.

I don't think Trump is the Antichrist incarnate. I simply thought his policies were bad and that he was completely unqualified. I never once noticed you do anything but act like a fucking asshole the whole time. Trolling and amping people up, so save this 'oh I was just trying to be reasonable' bullshit. Fucking liar. You are only taking this position now as another bullshit trolling tactic.

Yes, that's a pretty good summation of my opinion too.

At least with Legbiter, he made it clear he was doing it for the Lolz .

I think if Marty is going to continue with the BS a lot of posters are going to get Very fed up with him.

I'd imagine if one is an American Lauguishite having to deal with the Trump presidency for four years will be more than enough, without Marty daily piling that bullshit on top of it.

[The Minsky Moment]

My position on Hillary and Trump has always been this: there are people who, depending on legitimate world views they can adopt (none of which are degenerate or immoral or objectively wrong), can reasonably view Clinton as being better than Trump, Clinton as being as bad as Trump, or Trump as being better than Clinton. .

No that's not a reasonable informed view

[Barrister]

My position on Hillary and Trump has always been this: there are people who, depending on legitimate world views they can adopt (none of which are degenerate or immoral or objectively wrong), can reasonably view Clinton as being better than Trump, Clinton as being as bad as Trump, or Trump as being better than Clinton. .

No that's not a reasonable informed view

Trump is uniquely and obviously unqualified to be anywhere near the oval office.  His ignorance was staggering.  His policy proposals were laughable.  His personal character is repugnant.

Reasonable people could reasonably disagree about Obama vs Romney, or really any Presidential election in the last hundred years or so.  But not in 2016.

[The Minsky Moment]

Right.
Reasonable and informed disagreement requires coherent programmatic alternatives.
"Build a wall", "drain the swamp", "lock her up", "repeal and replace" etc are slogans not programs.

He's a couple months from office and already there are indications of reappraisals on Obamacare, his immigration policy is looking a lot like Obama's, even the Iran deal may be OK after all.  What was obvious and unstated before is obvious and stated now - with respect to every major policy area, there was absolutely no plan or idea about what to do, and his ersatz team is scrambling to figure it out now.

This was like a high school student council election where people voted for the joke candidate for fun and to express their annoyance at the dorky kids.  Only the winner isn't in charge of a powerless body in a high school.  He's in charge of the most powerful nation on the planet.

Oops.

[Syt]

This was like a high school student council election where people voted for the joke candidate for fun and to express their annoyance at the dorky kids.

So I wasn't the only one who felt reminded of the election campaign of Bart vs Martin Prince in one of the old Simpsons episodes (only that Bart lost in that case)?

[CountDeMoney]

Right.
Reasonable and informed disagreement requires coherent programmatic alternatives.
"Build a wall", "drain the swamp", "lock her up", "repeal and replace" etc are slogans not programs.

He's a couple months from office and already there are indications of reappraisals on Obamacare, his immigration policy is looking a lot like Obama's, even the Iran deal may be OK after all.  What was obvious and unstated before is obvious and stated now - with respect to every major policy area, there was absolutely no plan or idea about what to do, and his ersatz team is scrambling to figure it out now.

This was like a high school student council election where people voted for the joke candidate for fun and to express their annoyance at the dorky kids.  Only the winner isn't in charge of a powerless body in a high school.  He's in charge of the most powerful nation on the planet.

Oops.

I would find this situation incredibly funny as a spectator, except then I realize that this would be the kind of chaotic atmosphere and lack of command in leadership the Soviets would've considered for a first strike in the 1950s or 1960s.

[CountDeMoney]

Maybe they should just skip the whole transition thingy, and just roll the phones over to Trump Tower.

[LaCroix]

Right.
Reasonable and informed disagreement requires coherent programmatic alternatives.
"Build a wall", "drain the swamp", "lock her up", "repeal and replace" etc are slogans not programs.

He's a couple months from office and already there are indications of reappraisals on Obamacare, his immigration policy is looking a lot like Obama's, even the Iran deal may be OK after all.  What was obvious and unstated before is obvious and stated now - with respect to every major policy area, there was absolutely no plan or idea about what to do, and his ersatz team is scrambling to figure it out now.

This was like a high school student council election where people voted for the joke candidate for fun and to express their annoyance at the dorky kids.  Only the winner isn't in charge of a powerless body in a high school.  He's in charge of the most powerful nation on the planet.

Oops.

thing is, trump's actions since getting elected have been mostly positive or indicate things might not be so terrible. a lot of people are stuck on what he said/promised, but it's looking increasingly likely trump said/promised things he had no intention of doing. this is very much a good thing that, imo, deserves more attention in these threads

[Zanza]

My move to the "right" was largely caused by me being repelled by the mainstream left adopting the "alt left" positions on things such as safe spaces, trigger warnings, language policing and general hostility they seem to hold against various views informed by liberty.

You way overshot your target then.

[Barrister]

thing is, trump's actions since getting elected have been mostly positive or indicate things might not be so terrible. a lot of people are stuck on what he said/promised, but it's looking increasingly likely trump said/promised things he had no intention of doing. this is very much a good thing that, imo, deserves more attention in these threads

I don't know what to cheer for here.

Yes, on the one hand, I kind-of hope that Trump has zero intention of carrying out a single thing that he mentioned.  No wall, no banning muslims, no tearing up NAFTA - nothing.  He's going to take direction from senior GOP leaders like Priebus, Pence and Ryan and govern like an adult.

But then what does that tell us about how to run for election?  What does that teach the voters, and the next generation of candidates?

So part of me hopes that Trump meant most of what he says - that he does build (as Vincente Fox succintly put it) a "fucking wall", he does lock up Hillary Clinton, he does get into a ruinous trade war with half the world.  All of which would be terrible - but maybe that'll teach voters that they should actually listen to what politicians say they're going to do?

[LaCroix]

it means hillary truly ran a terrible campaign