What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[merithyn]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/feds-thwart-militia-plot-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer/5922301002/

The FBI thwarted what they described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday.

The alleged plot involved reaching out to members of a Michigan militia, according to a federal affidavit filed Thursday.

"Several members talked about murdering 'tyrants' or 'taking' a sitting governor," an FBI agent wrote in the affidavit. "The group decided they needed to increase their numbers and encouraged each other to talk to their neighbors and spread their message."

Insane Right-Wingers: We're gonna overthrow the government.

*Is arrested*

Insane Right-Wingers: We're being OPPRESSED for our BELIEFS.

"Left-wing violent extremism is a serious threat to American lives and American freedom." ~ President Trump, October 2020

[The Minsky Moment]

What is "rank democracy"?

Rank democracy means when the voters rank you ahead of the other side, then it's good democracy and must be respected.

When the voters rank the other side ahead of your side, then it is bad democracy and must be disregarded.

[alfred russel]

People who are "on the fence" about Trump either just woke up from a four-year coma or are secretly Trumpeters who are ashamed to admit it.  It's like being "on the fence" about Osama bin Laden.

This is the same thinking that caused such incredible mischief and catastrophe in the aftermath of 9/11. Bush took the attitude of "you're either with us or against us"--but by drawing such hard lines he pushed people to the other side. In the Middle East, there are people who are anti-American and maybe even militantly pro islam, but are prone to consider that crashing planes into the WTC is too much. The president of the US rhetorically insisting to join him or be considered an enemy are likely to begin viewing themselves as enemies.

It also closes of discussion in a way that is unhelpful. There were plenty of allies that wanted a different path forward, but Bush effectively told them to fall in line or be considered "against us". Bush then blindly went ahead, into a highly unsuccessful series of actions. He probably could have avoided reversals by finding a path forward that found more consensus.

[The Minsky Moment]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/08/feds-thwart-militia-plot-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer/5922301002/

The FBI thwarted what they described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday.

The alleged plot involved reaching out to members of a Michigan militia, according to a federal affidavit filed Thursday.

"Several members talked about murdering 'tyrants' or 'taking' a sitting governor," an FBI agent wrote in the affidavit. "The group decided they needed to increase their numbers and encouraged each other to talk to their neighbors and spread their message."

Insane Right-Wingers: We're gonna overthrow the government.

*Is arrested*

Insane Right-Wingers: We're being OPPRESSED for our BELIEFS following the President's orders to LIBERATE MICHIGAN.

FYP

[Valmy]

I think talking shit to people on the internet is an enormous counter-productive and society endangering activity. So why I keep posting here is beyond me.

[PDH]

I think talking shit to people on the internet is an enormous counter-productive and society endangering activity. So why I keep posting here is beyond me.

Remember, I've met you.  You do it for the love.

[Malthus]

I think talking shit to people on the internet is an enormous counter-productive and society endangering activity. So why I keep posting here is beyond me.

We are not "people", is why. 😉

By which I mean - we are a small and closed group. The real social harms are done by talking shit anonymously with random people, which spreads mental harm in much the same way as unprotected partying with strangers spreads COVID.

[merithyn]

I think talking shit to people on the internet is an enormous counter-productive and society endangering activity. So why I keep posting here is beyond me.

We are not "people", is why. 😉

By which I mean - we are a small and closed group. The real social harms are done by talking shit anonymously with random people, which spreads mental harm in much the same way as unprotected partying with strangers spreads COVID.

Correct. We're already mentally damaged.

[Tamas]

 

[grumbler]

Nobody cares if you insult Trump. It's insulting their Trump-voting friends and family which pisses people off.

So says every Trumpeter.  In reality, Trump-voting non-fascists deserve to be insulted.  They are morons who value their feels above their country.

There's a difference between what someone deserves, and what is effective.

A Trump voted probably does deserve to be insulted.  But if you're trying to get them to change their vote, insulting them is a highly ineffective tactic.

Edit: There's two relatively prominent GOP #NeverTrump groups out there stumping for Biden.  One if the Lincoln Project, which has gotten a lot of coverage.  It tends to do a lock of mocking of Trump.  Personally I find their stuff hilarious, but it's very much preaching to the choir.

The other is Republican Voters Against Trump.  They just put out a whole bunch of testimonials - some voter will tape themselves, explain why they're a republican and then explain why it's important to vote for Joe Biden.  Not nearly so funny, no real mocking of the GOP - but my bet is that approach is far more likely to get someone to change their mind.

No one is going to change a Trump voter's mind by this point.  Those who are rational have already left him, and those that are left are irrational emos who will never be convinced that they are wrong.

As I say, I don't believe that there are fence-sitters when it comes to Trump.  There may be people who hate him but just cannot vote for a Democrats for emotional reasons, and that's somewhat understandable.  But actually on the fence about whether "own the libs" outweighs being a pathologically-lying dictator-loving constitutional ignoramus isn't possible.

[Razgovory]

I think talking shit to people on the internet is an enormous counter-productive and society endangering activity. So why I keep posting here is beyond me.

We are not "people", is why. 😉

By which I mean - we are a small and closed group. The real social harms are done by talking shit anonymously with random people, which spreads mental harm in much the same way as unprotected partying with strangers spreads COVID.

Correct. We're already mentally damaged.

Preach it, sister!

[Barrister]

No one is going to change a Trump voter's mind by this point.  Those who are rational have already left him, and those that are left are irrational emos who will never be convinced that they are wrong.

As I say, I don't believe that there are fence-sitters when it comes to Trump.  There may be people who hate him but just cannot vote for a Democrats for emotional reasons, and that's somewhat understandable.  But actually on the fence about whether "own the libs" outweighs being a pathologically-lying dictator-loving constitutional ignoramus isn't possible.

Now obviously you have your die-hard MAGA-heads who no, you won't change their mind, but I don't believe 40% of voters are that dedicated.

[The Brain]

I'm watching ST:TNG, and people are constantly being controlled by energy entities or mind control rays (it's amazing that their workplace isn't more dysfuntional than it is). Maybe Trump voters could be controlled like that in some way.

[Barrister]

Maybe Trump voters could be controlled like that in some way.

Maybe they already are.

[grumbler]

Now obviously you have your die-hard MAGA-heads who no, you won't change their mind, but I don't believe 40% of voters are that dedicated.

For a long time, I thought as you do, but eventually the overwhelming evidence to the contrary hanged my mind.  Trump was correct in regards to his folowers; he could murder a man tomorrow and still have 40% of the vote.