What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Barrister]

That is horseshit.

The Iranian regime is no worse than many that the US is perfectly happy to do business with - this issue has nothing to do with Iran's status as a "horrible regime".

Umm, no.  Iran is much worse than many that the US does do business with.

It's a state sponsor of terror.  It is trying to develop nuclear weapons.  It is trying very hard to exert power outside its borders, with Iranian proxy troops in Iraq and Syria.

Do you think Trump withdrawing from the nuclear deal and establishing new sanctions makes Iran more or less cooperative on these three issues?

Probably less co-operative.  No matter what complaints an be made about the Iran deal, it was a multi-lateral structure that involved Europe, China and I think even Russia.  You need that kind of multi-lateral pressure to get the Iranians to change their behaviour.  The US opting out on its own is a terrible, horrible, no good very bad idea.

[Berkut]

Then stop defending it.

[Jacob]

Saudi Arabia: no nukes, no plans for nukes.  Not a state sponsor of terrorism.  Projection of military force is limited to Yemen.

Not everyone agrees with you about the Saudi regime not sponsoring terrorism.

If the key for you is the combination of nuclear weapons and state sponsored terrorism, then both India and Pakistan would seem to qualify... and of course Russia.

[Eddie Teach]

India and Pakistan already have nukes. Iran (and NK) are the only countries actively trying to acquire them.

[dps]

The problem as I see it is this: the merits of making the original deal in the first place are one thing - there is a legitimate debate about them.

The merits of the US pulling the plug on the deal after it was made are quite another.

We are not in the situation where we can go back in time and re-do the original deal. Really, even allowing for the sake of argument that the deal was crap, the damage the US is doing in pulling out of the deal at this point, without getting any consensus from its allies, appears to be far worse than simply continuing with it.

The sanctions were supposed to isolate the bad guy, Iran. The US is creating a situation where it is diplomatically isolating itself, to its detriment (and that of everyone else). 

I think I'm in general agreement with Malthus on the points he makes in this post.

[Barrister]

Then stop defending it.

I'm not.

I only specifically objected to your comment that Iran isn't any worse than many other countries.  It is.

[Berkut]

Then stop defending it.

I'm not.

I only specifically objected to your comment that Iran isn't any worse than many other countries.  It is.

Sometimes you seem like you are intentionally playing this really, really stupid role.

Iran can, and is, both "no worse than many countries" and "much worse than many other countries".

This is patently fucking obvious, since it isn't the WORST country, nor is it the BEST country, therefore there must be countries both better and worse than it - why you are going on about this is boggling.

"The Iranian regime is no worse than many that the US is perfectly happy to do business with" that is what I said.

If you want to object to that you have to show that in fact Iran is worse than every other country that the US is happy to do business with, not that there does in fact exist some countries that are NOT worse than Iran.

I think Saudi Arabia is just as bad, and possibly worse. Russia is just as bad in other ways (especially if one of your main issues with Iran is their attempts to project power regionally), China is just as bad in other ways. Pakistan is just as bad. Syria is just as bad. Iran is not some unqiuely terrible regime, even if they are a fucking terrible regime.

I suspect this is some kind of emotional or religious thing for you.

[Jacob]

India and Pakistan already have nukes. Iran (and NK) are the only countries actively trying to acquire them.

Well then, once Iran has nukes they'll then be no worse than India and Pakistan. QED.

[Admiral Yi]

Well then, once Iran has nukes they'll then be no worse than India and Pakistan. QED.

Please tell me this is not a serious statement.

[Jacob]

Well then, once Iran has nukes they'll then be no worse than India and Pakistan. QED.

Please tell me this is not a serious statement.

It is not a serious statement

[grumbler]

Anyone who thinks Saudi Arabia has no plans for developing nuclear weapons is naive. I believe that they don't want one, and that their plans don't realistically call for an indigenous capability, but pakistan is known to have exported nuclear weapons technology, and I think the Saudis have purchased some of that as a backup plan.

Also, Saudi Arabia was a prime backer of ISIS.  They are behind the whole Sunni backlash against the resurgent Shiites.

[jimmy olsen]

Saudi Arabia: no nukes, no plans for nukes.  Not a state sponsor of terrorism.  Projection of military force is limited to Yemen.

Saudi Arabia sponsors terrorism.

Saudi Arabia sponsors radical islamic militias fighting in Syria.

Saudi Arabia is currently committing genocide in Yemen.

Saudi Arabia has a deal to buy nukes from Pakistan should they need to.

[dps]

Saudi Arabia: no nukes, no plans for nukes.  Not a state sponsor of terrorism.  Projection of military force is limited to Yemen.

Saudi Arabia sponsors terrorism.

Saudi Arabia sponsors radical islamic militias fighting in Syria.

Saudi Arabia is currently committing genocide in Yemen.

Saudi Arabia has a deal to buy nukes from Pakistan should they need to.

I'll agree with you on the first 2 points, but who are they committing genocide against in Iran, and what's your source for the 4th point?

EDIT:  in Yemen, not Iran.

[Berkut]

The point is that "Iran is bad" is not a reason to bail on the deal. Pointing out that they suck in a discussion around backing out of the deal makes no sense. Lots of countries suck, and we deal with them all the time.

[Jacob]

The point is that "Iran is bad" is not a reason to bail on the deal. Pointing out that they suck in a discussion around backing out of the deal makes no sense. Lots of countries suck, and we deal with them all the time.

Exactly.