What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Valmy]

But it's not blasting them. The whole point of the debate is to show/debate structural effect. In my experience, derailing the topic is not the effect of "the left" calling everyone they disagree with racists, it's pople,insisting that they, personally, are not racist. And it's a bloody old tactic/reflex that James Baldwin denounced in the 60s. At some point, people need to decide whether or not what is more important to them is fighting racism, or simply not being called a racist.

I would argue at some point people need to decide whether or not what is more important to them is fighting racism, or derailing debates with ad hominem attacks.

[Malthus]

What is really annoying is that, like it or not, we are all cast into the political left these days, because the political right has lost its collective marbles. In an era in which a polarizing choice is being forced upon us, we have no real choice; a thinking person cannot go with the political right.

[Oexmelin]

I would argue at some point people need to decide whether or not what is more important to them is fighting racism, or derailing debates with ad hominem attacks.

Of course. But how prevalent is this? Unless I am misremembering, the topic was discussed here because people took exception to the expression "systematic racism", not because someone was actually called a racist. Again, *that* form of derailing has been going on since at least the 60s. There is a moment when such reflex is more about keeping the discussion at arms length than about the appropriateness of terms.

[Valmy]

I would argue at some point people need to decide whether or not what is more important to them is fighting racism, or derailing debates with ad hominem attacks.

Of course. But how prevalent is this?

Pretty prevalent. It see it happening all the time.

Unless I am misremembering, the topic was discussed here because people took exception to the expression "systematic racism", not because someone was actually called a racist. Again, *that* form of derailing has been going on since at least the 60s. There is a moment when such reflex is more about keeping the discussion at arms length than about the appropriateness of terms.

Did they take exception to the expression or to the concept? One is an interesting discussion that might change minds. The other is not.

That was BB's thing right? He agreed that things in the past were systematically racist but he disagrees that things as they stand are. Correct?

[Barrister]

What is really annoying is that, like it or not, we are all cast into the political left these days, because the political right has lost its collective marbles. In an era in which a polarizing choice is being forced upon us, we have no real choice; a thinking person cannot go with the political right.

Trumpism does not define "the political right".  There are many 'thinking people' on the political right.

[Monoriu]

What is really annoying is that, like it or not, we are all cast into the political left these days, because the political right has lost its collective marbles. In an era in which a polarizing choice is being forced upon us, we have no real choice; a thinking person cannot go with the political right.

Switzerland and Sweden remained neutral in WWII.  It is possible to be bystanders 

[Valmy]

What is really annoying is that, like it or not, we are all cast into the political left these days, because the political right has lost its collective marbles. In an era in which a polarizing choice is being forced upon us, we have no real choice; a thinking person cannot go with the political right.

Trumpism does not define "the political right".  There are many 'thinking people' on the political right.

Sorry comrade we are all brothers in the revolutionary struggle now

[Grey Fox]

What is really annoying is that, like it or not, we are all cast into the political left these days, because the political right has lost its collective marbles. In an era in which a polarizing choice is being forced upon us, we have no real choice; a thinking person cannot go with the political right.

Trumpism does not define "the political right".  There are many 'thinking people' on the political right.

Comrade, we're sorry you cannot see the light.

[Barrister]

What is really annoying is that, like it or not, we are all cast into the political left these days, because the political right has lost its collective marbles. In an era in which a polarizing choice is being forced upon us, we have no real choice; a thinking person cannot go with the political right.

Trumpism does not define "the political right".  There are many 'thinking people' on the political right.

Comrade, we're sorry you cannot see the light.

[DGuller]

What is really annoying is that, like it or not, we are all cast into the political left these days, because the political right has lost its collective marbles. In an era in which a polarizing choice is being forced upon us, we have no real choice; a thinking person cannot go with the political right.

Trumpism does not define "the political right".  There are many 'thinking people' on the political right.

In the US, right this moment, 3/4 of Republicans still approve of Trump.  I think it's safe to say that Trumpism does define the "political right", or at least the differences aren't important enough to matter if they still do not renounce it.

Maybe in Canada there is room to be on the right without either supporting despicable people or at least enabling them, but you don't have an active racially-underpinned culture war raging there right now.

[Valmy]

but you don't have an active racially-underpinned culture war raging there right now.

We seem to be exporting it abroad though. Thanks to the internet.

[Oexmelin]

That was BB's thing right? He agreed that things in the past were systematically racist but he disagrees that things as they stand are. Correct?

Yes, but that wasn't the derailing part. 

[DGuller]

but you don't have an active racially-underpinned culture war raging there right now.

We seem to be exporting it abroad though. Thanks to the internet.

It was a fight that was bound to have happened anyway in all the western countries.  I think the pragmatic mistake that liberals made was discounting how much diversity can be perceived as a threat to culture, and how much people value their culture.

[Barrister]

What is really annoying is that, like it or not, we are all cast into the political left these days, because the political right has lost its collective marbles. In an era in which a polarizing choice is being forced upon us, we have no real choice; a thinking person cannot go with the political right.

Trumpism does not define "the political right".  There are many 'thinking people' on the political right.

In the US, right this moment, 3/4 of Republicans still approve of Trump.  I think it's safe to say that Trumpism does define the "political right", or at least the differences aren't important enough to matter if they still do not renounce it.

Maybe in Canada there is room to be on the right without either supporting despicable people or at least enabling them, but you don't have an active racially-underpinned culture war raging there right now.

Defining one's own politics by reference to opinion polls is tricky to say the least.

There are numerous politicians and opinion writers who are both very much on the right and very much opposed to Trump.

[Valmy]

That was BB's thing right? He agreed that things in the past were systematically racist but he disagrees that things as they stand are. Correct?

Yes, but that wasn't the derailing part. 

Ah well I was speaking of the outside Languish world of course. Nobody here would ever launch an ad hominem attack with grumbler around.