What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Ed Anger]

Last night I dreamt Trump had been deposed and replaced by a sensible president, can't recall any of the details or how it happened, but it's a start. 


Now I just need to start shifting 'reality' into that dream state. 


Alternatively maybe this reality is a dream/AI state and the researchers controlling the experiment are getting increasingly agitated about waking the patient, so injecting Trump into it was a sure-fire way of rousing the slumbers from this now unreal state.

After all no one dreaming this would think it likely and wake with the sensation, 'Damn that dream got stupid and unrealistic'. 

I dream of Asian midgets

[DGuller]

I've a sneaking feeling that the reality is that if voters are falling for Conservative lies, the solution isn't to try to pull them back with rationality but rather spew out some left wing lies to distract them to the 'correct' side.

Yeah, the left could do with some juicy simplistic rhetoric and red meat for its potential voters.

But the left and the right are not the same kind of people with opposite polarities.  Appeal to emotion are inherently less powerful for liberal ideology than it is for authoritarian ideology.  Unfortunately, nothing is as strong as emotion, so liberals will be perpetually on the wrong side of enthusiasm gap.

[dps]

I've a sneaking feeling that the reality is that if voters are falling for Conservative lies, the solution isn't to try to pull them back with rationality but rather spew out some left wing lies to distract them to the 'correct' side.

Yeah, the left could do with some juicy simplistic rhetoric and red meat for its potential voters.

But the left and the right are not the same kind of people with opposite polarities.  Appeal to emotion are inherently less powerful for liberal ideology than it is for authoritarian ideology.  Unfortunately, nothing is as strong as emotion, so liberals will be perpetually on the wrong side of enthusiasm gap.

Bullshit, one of the main ways liberals have pushed through new regulations has always been an appeal to emotions, rather than logic. 

[DGuller]

And while I certainly believe in fiscal conservatism, I have almost no confidence in the Republican party to deliver it (though there's not even any hope of the Democrats to deliver it unless there's a seismic shift if Democratic policy positions).

See that is where I think we are different. I am much more confident the Democrats could.

This is another article of faith, just like "a good federal government is a weak federal government", that only makes sense if you don't look back at how it works out in practice.  In practice, there is not much that can be done to cut expenses, but Republicans are quite effective at cutting revenues and using voodoo economics arguments to claim it would cut deficits.  It's not that Republicans are ineffective at being fiscally conservative, but rather than they are very effective at not being fiscally conservative.

[garbon]

I've a sneaking feeling that the reality is that if voters are falling for Conservative lies, the solution isn't to try to pull them back with rationality but rather spew out some left wing lies to distract them to the 'correct' side.

Yeah, the left could do with some juicy simplistic rhetoric and red meat for its potential voters.

But the left and the right are not the same kind of people with opposite polarities.  Appeal to emotion are inherently less powerful for liberal ideology than it is for authoritarian ideology.  Unfortunately, nothing is as strong as emotion, so liberals will be perpetually on the wrong side of enthusiasm gap.

Bullshit, one of the main ways liberals have pushed through new regulations has always been an appeal to emotions, rather than logic. 

I think you might be referring to human compassion and empathy. I know that as a Republican* that might be hard for you to understand.

*And yes, I've burnt that bridge. I'd sooner die than be a Republican again.

[DGuller]

I've a sneaking feeling that the reality is that if voters are falling for Conservative lies, the solution isn't to try to pull them back with rationality but rather spew out some left wing lies to distract them to the 'correct' side.

Yeah, the left could do with some juicy simplistic rhetoric and red meat for its potential voters.

But the left and the right are not the same kind of people with opposite polarities.  Appeal to emotion are inherently less powerful for liberal ideology than it is for authoritarian ideology.  Unfortunately, nothing is as strong as emotion, so liberals will be perpetually on the wrong side of enthusiasm gap.

Bullshit, one of the main ways liberals have pushed through new regulations has always been an appeal to emotions, rather than logic.

This is peanuts compared to all sorts of insanities the right wing buys into as long as racial component is tangentially involved.  Liberals have never been able to summon such ugly yet highly effective emotions, and frankly I'd like to keep it that way.

[Admiral Yi]

But the left and the right are not the same kind of people with opposite polarities.  Appeal to emotion are inherently less powerful for liberal ideology than it is for authoritarian ideology.  Unfortunately, nothing is as strong as emotion, so liberals will be perpetually on the wrong side of enthusiasm gap.

But the left/right split in America is not only about, or even primarily about, liberalism vs. authoritarianism.  And self proclaimed victim groups and class warriors can be very emotional about their dislike for their perceived oppressors.  Pick a random Seedy post if you need an example.

[garbon]

I like that a fair amount of Republican dissension the new Senate draft is either from moderates/those in vulnerable seats and from fanatics who think the bill doesn't strip away nearly enough.

[DGuller]

But the left and the right are not the same kind of people with opposite polarities.  Appeal to emotion are inherently less powerful for liberal ideology than it is for authoritarian ideology.  Unfortunately, nothing is as strong as emotion, so liberals will be perpetually on the wrong side of enthusiasm gap.

But the left/right split in America is not only about, or even primarily about, liberalism vs. authoritarianism.  And self proclaimed victim groups and class warriors can be very emotional about their dislike for their perceived oppressors.  Pick a random Seedy post if you need an example.

I'm not saying the liberals are immune to appeal to emotion, I've railed about some of that quite consistently myself.  But in the big scheme of things, even the worst of SJW excess don't come close to things like Obama Derangement Syndrome, both in their insanity and their political effectiveness.  SJW excesses also often involve specious arguments rather than attack on the rational thought itself.

[Valmy]

SJWs also spend most of their time attacking other less pure versions of themselves, which is indeed how they got their name. The nuts on the right spend less time purging their ranks.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm not saying the liberals are immune to appeal to emotion, I've railed about some of that quite consistently myself.  But in the big scheme of things, even the worst of SJW excess don't come close to things like Obama Derangement Syndrome, both in their insanity and their political effectiveness.  SJW excesses also often involve specious arguments rather than attack on the rational thought itself.

I don't really understand what you're saying.

[Ed Anger]

SJWs also spend most of their time attacking other less pure versions of themselves, which is indeed how they got their name. The nuts on the right spend less time purging their ranks.

The nuts on the right have more hilarious Twitter accounts. Since the MRA losers are in the mix also.

[DGuller]

I'm not saying the liberals are immune to appeal to emotion, I've railed about some of that quite consistently myself.  But in the big scheme of things, even the worst of SJW excess don't come close to things like Obama Derangement Syndrome, both in their insanity and their political effectiveness.  SJW excesses also often involve specious arguments rather than attack on the rational thought itself.

I don't really understand what you're saying.

That doesn't really give me much to go on, does it?

[Admiral Yi]

That doesn't really give me much to go on, does it?

OK.  What is Obama Derangement Syndrome and what do you mean by attack on rational thought itself.

And while you're at it, what is the relationship between attack on rational thought and appeal to emotion?

[DGuller]

OK.  What is Obama Derangement Syndrome and what do you mean by attack on rational thought itself.

Not sure we're going to get anywhere quick if I have to get bogged down defining obvious concepts.  Obama Derangement Syndrome is thinking that he is a Kenyan-born traitor, and making political decisions based on that version of reality.  That kind of thinking only makes sense if your emotions are tapped into so deeply that you're not thinking at all.  What is it about him that would tap into people's emotions so deeply?  Probably the fact that he's a smoker.

And while you're at it, what is the relationship between attack on rational thought and appeal to emotion?

Appeal to emotion is designed to turn off rational thought altogether.  Specious reasoning is designed to appeal to rational thought, but using logically flawed arguments to fool you.  Emotion is a much more powerful force than rational thought, so whenever the two are in conflict, emotion always wins out, no matter what kind of person you are.  Rational people are just better at shielding their emotional weak points and detecting attempts to emotionally manipulate them.