What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[garbon]

Protecting health care, minimum wage raises, easing of college debt, clean energy subsidies... Dems have long pushed for economic measures to improve salaries, jobs, and the economic problems of lower classes. All those were part of this election, and pushed by Hillary.

I find the whole "Dems only cared for transgender bathrooms" a gross mischaracterization from the right to justify the idiocy of voting Trump.

Hil had 'binders' of policies and initiatives that were available in detail on her site. Peeps weren't feeling that.

[Valmy]

She did. I read them.

[FunkMonk]

I agree with much of what Lax is saying. The Democrats need to offer at least some hope or narrative to borderline-Trump working class Midwest voters in 2018 and 2020 if they want to have a chance to come back into power. Articulate a message of greater economic equality and job growth in the Midwest, coupled with racial harmony and emphasizing the American community. The American dream, so to speak. Don't give up on these voters because the very worst of their impulses can, and have, been channeled into voting for an authoritarian charlatan with a genuine white nationalist as his primary adviser.

[FunkMonk]

Protecting health care, minimum wage raises, easing of college debt, clean energy subsidies... Dems have long pushed for economic measures to improve salaries, jobs, and the economic problems of lower classes. All those were part of this election, and pushed by Hillary.

I find the whole "Dems only cared for transgender bathrooms" a gross mischaracterization from the right to justify the idiocy of voting Trump.

Hil had 'binders' of policies and initiatives that were available in detail on her site. Peeps weren't feeling that.

Unfortunately she was the wrong messenger.

[garbon]

Protecting health care, minimum wage raises, easing of college debt, clean energy subsidies... Dems have long pushed for economic measures to improve salaries, jobs, and the economic problems of lower classes. All those were part of this election, and pushed by Hillary.

I find the whole "Dems only cared for transgender bathrooms" a gross mischaracterization from the right to justify the idiocy of voting Trump.

Hil had 'binders' of policies and initiatives that were available in detail on her site. Peeps weren't feeling that.

Unfortunately she was the wrong messenger.

I don't think that's the full story. After all, given the excitement around Bernie 'populist noise' Sanders, I think in 2016, people really just wanted comforting soundbites (aka fit their worldview). No one wanted detailed, realistic policies.  Not sure to what extent they ever have, in my lifetime, at least.

[garbon]

I agree with much of what Lax is saying. The Democrats need to offer at least some hope or narrative to borderline-Trump working class Midwest voters in 2018 and 2020 if they want to have a chance to come back into power. Articulate a message of greater economic equality and job growth in the Midwest, coupled with racial harmony and emphasizing the American community. The American dream, so to speak. Don't give up on these voters because the very worst of their impulses can, and have, been channeled into voting for an authoritarian charlatan with a genuine white nationalist as his primary adviser.

Trump's view of America is anti-hope though. Sort of everything is shit and I'm the only one who can magically fix it.

[LaCroix]

Protecting health care, minimum wage raises, easing of college debt, clean energy subsidies... Dems have long pushed for economic measures to improve salaries, jobs, and the economic problems of lower classes. All those were part of this election, and pushed by Hillary.

I find the whole "Dems only cared for transgender bathrooms" a gross mischaracterization from the right to justify the idiocy of voting Trump.

health care -- attack obamacare to fix the issues with it. just because a democratic president created it, doesn't mean they have to stick with it.

minimum wage raises -- this seems to focus on the poor, not the working class. at least, the working class seems to dislike this because it's seen as helping the poor at the cost of them

clean energy subsidies -- you mean ethanol? I don't see how this helps the working class in the blue wall states. it helps corn farmers, but they seem like types to maybe vote for a democratic senator or representative at best but vote republican for the presidential elections

(edit -- these are just ideas I came off the top of my head; I'm sure there might be better ways of handling these and others, but this is to give you an idea that the democrats don't need to stick with the same ineffective message/strategy)

for the presidential campaign, the democrats need to hit the working class in the blue wall states. they're not going to get the south or the midwest. virginia, maybe/likely. florida, depends on the candidate. the democrats need the working class to stick with them, so they have to be willing to change some things around in their overall strategy.

hillary was the personification of wall street and big business and big government. not just the republicans thought that, but so did the democratic voters during the democratic primary. it was such an easy message to create about her, regardless of its truth. plus, people simply didn't like her. I remember people here saying she had a terrible voice and seemed like (iirc) a manikin. she also a ran a bad campaign by really mishandling the email issue and not campaigning in the local communities around the blue wall.

[Tamas]

  when was the last time measured arguments and plans won over rampant populist slogans? Never. Ever.

And I don't care how cruel it is: if you don't even have to be forced to make a full stand behind issues which are both extremely marginal and upsetting for a large base of the simpleton voter base you need to target (i.e. transgender use of toilets), then you are easy pickings for the likes of fascists you need to be fighting.

There are issues you can't compromise on, like democratic institutions, personal liberty, equal rights regardless of race and sexuality.
Public toilet use habits of 0.0001% of the population, now that you can compromise on, to defuse the communication wunderwaffe of your enemy.

Because 10 years from now Hillary Clinton will be remembered as the candidate who wanted to let men into the lady's room, even if that never existed only in the heads of those who bought the GOP propaganda. That's how this works.

[FunkMonk]

I agree with much of what Lax is saying. The Democrats need to offer at least some hope or narrative to borderline-Trump working class Midwest voters in 2018 and 2020 if they want to have a chance to come back into power. Articulate a message of greater economic equality and job growth in the Midwest, coupled with racial harmony and emphasizing the American community. The American dream, so to speak. Don't give up on these voters because the very worst of their impulses can, and have, been channeled into voting for an authoritarian charlatan with a genuine white nationalist as his primary adviser.

Trump's view of America is anti-hope though. Sort of everything is shit and I'm the only one who can magically fix it.

This is true, but to these people he was a "hope and change" figure, even though he's nothing of the sort.

It's tragic that he was able to con a shit ton of people looking for a positive change from their shitty situations.

[Valmy]

I agree with much of what Lax is saying. The Democrats need to offer at least some hope or narrative to borderline-Trump working class Midwest voters in 2018 and 2020 if they want to have a chance to come back into power. Articulate a message of greater economic equality and job growth in the Midwest, coupled with racial harmony and emphasizing the American community. The American dream, so to speak. Don't give up on these voters because the very worst of their impulses can, and have, been channeled into voting for an authoritarian charlatan with a genuine white nationalist as his primary adviser.

Pretty sure this is, basically, what they always do. I mean when they are not attacking Republicans.

Unfortunately she was the wrong messenger.

So have the same message just without Hillary? Probably without all those other ancient fossils that are their leaders as well. Do they have anybody decent under 60 over there?

[Valmy]

when was the last time measured arguments and plans won over rampant populist slogans? Never. Ever.

The Democratic Primary

(OMG IT WAS STOLEN!!!111)

[DontSayBanana]

Hil's problem wasn't that she had policies and initiatives available in detail, Hil's problem was that she dismissed or diminished base Republican concerns.  The Clinton campaign assumed Trump was a failed candidate from the start and doubled down on base concerns, not cross-aisle concerns.  The "basket of deplorables" comment was the one place where she explicitly talked down on Trump supporters, but the way she phrased her rhetoric during rallies and debates guaranteed she would pull virtually no Republican support- instead of educating the public on why Planned Parenthood should be supported, she vilified its attackers; instead of explaining that she had to find other places to put coal workers to work once their plants disappeared, she painted support of coal as stupid, backwards thinking...

I absolutely loathe Trump, but people need to remember that as bad a matchup as this was, this race was Hil's to lose, and lose it she did.  More rallies isn't the same as more effort in a political campaign, and what she delivered was basically zero effort.

[Fate]

I agree with much of what Lax is saying. The Democrats need to offer at least some hope or narrative to borderline-Trump working class Midwest voters in 2018 and 2020 if they want to have a chance to come back into power. Articulate a message of greater economic equality and job growth in the Midwest, coupled with racial harmony and emphasizing the American community. The American dream, so to speak. Don't give up on these voters because the very worst of their impulses can, and have, been channeled into voting for an authoritarian charlatan with a genuine white nationalist as his primary adviser.

The election was decided by around 80k total votes split between (50k) Pennsylvania, (10k) Michigan, and (20k) Wisconsin. I don't think the Democrats need to do some huge realignment to pick up borderline Trump mouth breathers. They need to turn out their base.

200k less people voted in Wisconsin in 2016 vs 2012.  130k less people voted in Michigan in 2016 vs 2012. It's true Pennsylvania turnout was up from 2012 but if Hillary got the same number of as Obama did in 2012 she would have won that state too. If she didn't have the stink of scandal I think those people would have turned out and delivered another 4 boring years of divided Rep/Dem government.

[LaCroix]

Trump's view of America is anti-hope though. Sort of everything is shit and I'm the only one who can magically fix it.

exactly -- trump is the one to fix it. that's the hope he's actually instilling in the working class. but it's not going to work, because trump was using it as a message and doesn't (as far as I can tell) actually have a way to help their situation. use trump's message against him -- the working class wasn't helped by trump through his measures, their situation remains the same, us democrats have the real way to fix your problem: [insert message]

the working class don't see their situation as positive, and trump knew that from the get-go. you don't need to paint all of america as negative (and probably shouldn't), but you do have to concede things are terrible in the blue wall states and there's gonna be a fix coming

[FunkMonk]

So have the same message just without Hillary? Probably without all those other ancient fossils that are their leaders as well. Do they have anybody decent under 60 over there?

God knows what. The party became stagnant and complacent after Obama. Maybe they got overconfident.

Now that they're in the wilderness they have a chance to reinvent themselves and choose a new Beacon of hope throughout the galaxy. The Chosen One.