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What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

Started by FunkMonk, November 08, 2016, 11:02:57 PM

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Syt

So, it seems the summit has been cut short and there might not be a signing of anything.

Just another Trump "walk out to get what you want" moment?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Sophie Scholl

Wow.  He imported Sean Hannity to blow him at the press conference.  :rolleyes:
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

Sophie Scholl

Those are some expensive war games!  Hundreds of millions of dollars for every time they partake, eh?  Wow.  Why does no one call him on all of his bullshit?  They all just let it slide and smile.
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

celedhring

While the summit was talking place the NK Embassy in Spain was assaulted and the robbers made out with their computers  :ph34r:

Syt

Quote from: celedhring on February 28, 2019, 03:02:14 AM
While the summit was talking place the NK Embassy in Spain was assaulted and the robbers made out with their computers  :ph34r:

They have released images of the stolen hardware:



:P
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

celedhring

More details! According to reports in our press, it was a commando-like group of 10 armed men (although the Spanish police suspects the weapons were fakes), which held the embassy personnel at gunpoint, put bags over their heads and interrogated them violently. They stole the embassy's diplomatic cars for their getaway, which they abandoned nearby. It's suspected they also disabled the nearby cell tower to prevent communications in the area.

The former NK ambassador to Spain (we degraded the embassy to consular status after the EU agreed sanctions on North Korea last year) is nowadays one of Kim Jong Un's closest advisors, and is apparently been heavily involved in the Trump-Un rapprochement.

dps

Quote from: celedhring on February 28, 2019, 03:02:14 AM
While the summit was talking place the NK Embassy in Spain was assaulted and the robbers made out with their computers  :ph34r:

I wouldn't have expected the North Koreans to have some sort of advanced human/computer sex interface on their computers.

Barrister

By the way, good on Trump for walking away from the summit.  Sounds like the NKers thought Trump was so desperate for a game he'd agree to just about anything in order to get a deal.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Barrister on February 28, 2019, 02:53:31 PM
By the way, good on Trump for walking away from the summit.
TRUMP LOVER TRUMP LOVER

Kind of an abrupt move for the stable genius after all that talk about deep friendship with Kim.  I don't know what to make of it.

grumbler

Quote from: Barrister on February 28, 2019, 02:53:31 PM
By the way, good on Trump for walking away from the summit.  Sounds like the NKers thought Trump was so desperate for a game he'd agree to just about anything in order to get a deal.

Yeah, it would be better if he let diplomats handle diplomacy and avoid having these disasters when he relies on his charisma to make up for his lack of policies, but better he recognizes a losing hand and walks away than that he stay at the table and play out the losing hand.

I did LOL at his claim that 'we walked away, but it was a friendly walk."
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

alfred russel

It is all a charade. He goes to the summit, and gets a bunch of foreign people to treat him like a president, roll out the red carpet, etc. and - most importantly - gets to be a major news story.

If he does a deal, he gets criticized as a toady to North Korea unless he gets everything the US wants. He doesn't do a deal - I don't see so much criticism and he is a tough negotiator.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

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-garbon, February 23, 2014

The Minsky Moment

The way these summits are supposed to work is that real work is done beforehand by professional diplomats who explore the possibility of a meaningful agreement and then painstakingly work through the details. All under the direction of their political masters of course, but the idea is that the important parts are worked out before the summit happens and then the rest can be gladhanding and choreography.

As with all other aspects of his Presidency, Trump mistakes the theater for the reality.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Grinning_Colossus

Perhaps this sort of meeting is more appropriate for an era of personalized political systems.
Quis futuit ipsos fututores?

Tamas

Come on neither side ever took this seriously. Both Kim and Trump needed legitimisation and they've got it. Mission Accomplished.

Syt

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/us/politics/jared-kushner-security-clearance.html

QuoteTrump Ordered Officials to Give Jared Kushner a Security Clearance

WASHINGTON — President Trump ordered his chief of staff to grant his son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, a top-secret security clearance last year, overruling concerns flagged by intelligence officials and the White House's top lawyer, four people briefed on the matter said.

Mr. Trump's decision in May so troubled senior administration officials that at least one, the White House chief of staff at the time, John F. Kelly, wrote a contemporaneous internal memo about how he had been "ordered" to give Mr. Kushner the top-secret clearance.

The White House counsel at the time, Donald F. McGahn II, also wrote an internal memo outlining the concerns that had been raised about Mr. Kushner — including by the C.I.A. — and how Mr. McGahn had recommended that he not be given a top-secret clearance.

The disclosure of the memos contradicts statements made by the president, who told The New York Times in January in an Oval Office interview that he had no role in his son-in-law receiving his clearance.

Mr. Kushner's lawyer, Abbe D. Lowell, also said that at the time the clearance was granted last year that his client went through a standard process. Ivanka Trump, the president's eldest daughter and Mr. Kushner's wife, said the same thing three weeks ago.

Asked on Thursday about the memos contradicting the president's account, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, said, "We don't comment on security clearances."

Peter Mirijanian, a spokesman for Mr. Lowell, said on Thursday: "In 2018, White House and security clearance officials affirmed that Mr. Kushner's security clearance was handled in the regular process with no pressure from anyone. That was conveyed to the media at the time, and new stories, if accurate, do not change what was affirmed at the time."

The decision last year to grant Mr. Kushner a top-secret clearance upgraded him from earlier temporary and interim status. He never received a higher-level designation that would have given him access to need-to-know intelligence known as sensitive compartmented information.

It is not known precisely what factors led to the problems with Mr. Kushner's security clearance. Officials had raised questions about his own and his family's real estate business's ties to foreign governments and investors, and about initially unreported contacts he had with foreigners. The issue also generated criticism of Mr. Trump for having two family members serve in official capacities in the West Wing.

Mr. Kushner has spent this week abroad working on a Middle East peace plan. Among his meetings was one with Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia.

While the president has the legal authority to grant a clearance, in most cases, the White House's personnel security office makes a determination about whether to grant one after the F.B.I. has conducted a background check. If there is a dispute in the personnel security office about how to move forward — a rare occurrence — the White House counsel makes the decision. In highly unusual cases, the president weighs in and grants one himself.

In Mr. Kushner's case, personnel division officials were divided about whether to grant him a top-secret clearance.

In May 2018, the White House Counsel's Office, which at the time was led by Mr. McGahn, recommended to Mr. Trump that Mr. Kushner not be given a clearance at that level. But the next day, Mr. Trump ordered Mr. Kelly to grant it to Mr. Kushner anyway, the people familiar with the events said.

The question of Mr. Kushner's access to intelligence was a flash point almost from the beginning of the administration. The initial background check into Mr. Kushner dragged on for more than a year, creating a distraction for the White House, which struggled to explain why one of the people closest to the president had yet to be given the proper approval to be trusted with the country's most sensitive information.

The full scope of intelligence officials' concerns about Mr. Kushner is not known. But the clearance had been held up in part over questions from the F.B.I. and the C.I.A. about his foreign and business contacts, including those related to Israel, the United Arab Emirates and Russia, according to multiple people familiar with the events.

During the 2016 presidential campaign, Mr. Kushner was part of a group that met with a Russian lawyer who went to Trump Tower claiming to have political "dirt" on Hillary Clinton. And during the presidential transition, Mr. Kushner had a meeting with the Russian ambassador at the time, Sergey I. Kislyak, and the head of a Russian state-owned bank. When he applied for a security clearance, he did not reveal those meetings.

He later made several amendments to that section of his application, known as an SF86. His aides at the time insisted he had omitted those meetings inadvertently.

Mr. Kushner initially operated with a provisional clearance as his background check proceeded.

In an entry to Mr. Kushner's personnel file on Sept. 15, 2017, the head of the personnel security division, Carl Kline, wrote, "Per conversation with WH Counsel the clearance was changed to interim Top Secret until we can confirm that the DOJ or someone else actually granted a final clearance. This action is out of an abundance of caution because the background investigation has not been completed."

In a statement to The Times when Mr. Kushner received the clearance last year, Mr. Lowell said that "his application was properly submitted, reviewed by numerous career officials and underwent the normal process."

During a review of security clearances in February 2018 that was prompted by the controversy surrounding Rob Porter, then the White House staff secretary, who had been accused of domestic abuse, Mr. Kushner's clearance was downgraded from interim top secret to secret, limiting his access to classified information. At the time, Mr. Kelly wrote a five-page memo, revoking temporary clearances that had been in place since June 1, 2017.

That affected both Mr. Kushner and Ms. Trump, who told friends and advisers that they believed that Mr. Kelly and Mr. McGahn were targeting them for petty reasons instead of legitimate concerns flagged by officials.

Mr. Kushner and Ms. Trump both complained to the president about the situation, current and former administration officials said. In Mr. Kushner's case, Mr. Trump would often turn to other aides and say in frustration, "Why isn't this getting done?" according to a former administration official. On at least one occasion, the president asked another senior official if the person could sort out the issue. That official said no, according to this account.

Mr. Kelly did not believe it was appropriate to overrule the security clearance process and had brushed aside or avoided dealing with Mr. Kushner's requests, a former administration official said. Mr. Kelly did not respond to a request for comment.

House Democrats are in the early stages of an investigation into how several Trump administration officials obtained clearances, including Mr. Kushner.

Mr. Trump's precise language to Mr. Kelly about Mr. Kushner's clearance in their direct conversation remains unclear. Two of the people familiar with Mr. Trump's discussions with Mr. Kelly said that there might be different interpretations of what the president said. But Mr. Kelly believed it was an order, according to two people familiar with his thinking.

And Mr. Trump was definitive in his statements to The Times in the January interview.

"I was never involved with the security" clearances for Mr. Kushner, the president said. "I know that there was issues back and forth about security for numerous people, actually. But I don't want to get involved in that stuff."

A recent report by NBC revealed that Mr. Kline had overruled two career security specialists who had rejected Mr. Kushner's application based on the F.B.I.'s concerns. A senior administration official confirmed the details laid out in the NBC report.

Mr. Kline was acting on the directive sent down by the president, one of the people familiar with the matter said.

The day that Mr. Lowell described Mr. Kushner's process as having gone through normal routes, aides to Mr. Kushner had asked White House officials to deliver a statement from Mr. Kelly supporting what Mr. Lowell had said. But Mr. Kelly refused to do so, according to a person with knowledge of the events.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.