What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[FunkMonk]

Goddamn Mike Pence is fuckin brilliant

A motherfuckin Frank Underwood holy shit

[viper37]

1) A consistent, active recruiting pipeline.

That's there.
You camp have been making troubles since the late 90s, consistently, at any event.
FTAA, G20, G8, student protest, union strikes (unions are financing the radical left movements, sometimes openly, often not so), Occupy Wall Street, etc.
And there's always new faces in the mix. 

Some universities, like UQAM in Montreal, are breeding grounds for leftist extremists. 
For Oex and the others who can understand French:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3I632Rb96g
Summary (Oex will validate so you know I don't lie):  different signs are posted on university grounds. 
One is asking if Quebec culture and identity is threatened.  The points to be discussed are:
- Religious accomodations
- Immigration level
- Frenchisation
- Quebec culture
- Men Women equality

These signs were vandalized, and multiple students organization petitionned the university to forbid such conference.


The other promotes vandalism against "bourgeois" properties.
"And if we listened to vandals for once?
To condemn vandals is to play the game of bourgeois media
Gentrification of neighbourhood is a bigger problem than a few broken windows


These signs were left intact and no protests were filed against holding such a conference.

The vandalism they refer to was events such as these, this time, 4 in one night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gczBOGWQM8
The last paragraph translates as such:
"You are not safe in our neighbourhood.  Your owner association can do nothing against us.  Faced with your agression, we attack.  Tell your bourgeois friends and your insurers that Hochelaga is an hostile ground for investors and it will stay that way".

If that is not violence on the rise I do not know.

In the 30s, there were people throwing bricks in windows and posting signs like this to stores owned by Jews.  a lot of people stayed silent at the time, just like the left is doing today.

When a Mosque is attacked, the political class will be unanimous in its condemnation.  No journalist or columnist in a mainstream media will ever try to defend this.
yet, when this happens, the left is silent.

How is your side really the better one guys?  What will be different once your thuggish friends take power?

2) One or more outward facing leaders who can shape and direct the movement and define the agenda in the public eye.

Right now, there is nothing of the sort in in Canada, in Quebec or in Europe.

That does not prevent your side from organizing violent protests, threatening people who may or may be associated with the "ennemy", publicily expressing your desire to see them killed or see them expelled from their home.  You said you would attend a violent counter-protest this week-end.  Are we governed by a pro- right wing leader in Canada?  In BC?  In Vancouver?  Is there a clear and present danger that an extreme right wing movement may coopt democracy to achieve their aim?

I don't see any of that.

yet you insist it's a danger.

There hasn't been violent right wing protests in this country since the 90s.  CSIS infiltrated and dismantled the biggest groups, those presenting a threat.

The actions of the left though, they have been numerous.  Would you approve of me defending myself against union thugs?  Would you like Sbr is planning for those who kill right wing extremist, start a fund to help if I killed an FTQ scum trying to evict me from my site or vandalizing my property or assaulting one of my employee?

'cause I can't see any leftist politician defending me.  In fact, in the past, they stayed quiet because they were afraid.  And I didn't even use violence this time, I was just asking to be defended.

3) Consistently manifesting in pursuit of that agenda (rather than showing up in opposition to Nazi and alt-right manifestations).

... that's my POV. Not that I expect people to agree with me

That's the far left.  It's been quite consitant since the 90s, and they're growing bolder.  And they even have their own political vehicle with the NDP and Québec Solidaire.
In the US, the far left is trying to expunge the Democratic party of anyone not left enough.  Just like the Republicans did with the Tea Party.

So far, I have not seen any mainstream, major* political parties advocating extreme right-wing ideas in Quebec or in Canada.  Are there any such party in the Canadian provinces?  I don't know of any.
Yet, you will act as if there was a clear and present danger.  While you will shut your eyes to the violence of your friends.

If I was part of a movement that supported thuggism, I'd resign my membership and denounce them.  When I was in the ADQ, someone expressed racist comments toward a political ennemy.  I didn't have time to correct him, he was promptly told to shut up by the senior members.  That's the way to do politics, that's one of the many reason why I prefer right wing activism to leftwing.  We do not tolerate extremist behaviours.

I'm conceding the situation is dire in the US, because Trump dismantled the FBI unit dealing with homegrown terrorism and cut funding to organization devoted to deradicalize people under the influence of these gangs. But I will not concede that violence is the answer.


*Having at least one member in Parliament or Congress

[garbon]

Goddamn Mike Pence is fuckin brilliant

A motherfuckin Frank Underwood holy shit

[Jacob]

Goddamn Mike Pence is fuckin brilliant

A motherfuckin Frank Underwood holy shit

What did he do?

[garbon]

[FunkMonk]

He's successfully stayed within Donald's orbit without self-combusting.

So far...

[FunkMonk]

[Tamas]

He's successfully stayed within Donald's orbit without self-combusting.

So far...

I guess it is easier when your only objective with your job is to stay put in it long enough to see The Donald go.

[Solmyr]

Can the POTUS even fire the Veep? What happens if he does?

[HVC]

If/When Pence becomes president after Trump's crash and burn does this count as his first term? or can he get elected two more times?

[FunkMonk]

Look at him in that picture.

He knows. Everything is proceeding exactly as he has foreseen. 

[Syt]

Donald J. Trump‏
@realDonaldTrump  7 hours ago

Homeland Security and law enforcement are on alert & closely watching for any sign of trouble. Our borders are far tougher than ever before!

The Obstructionist Democrats make Security for our country very difficult. They use the courts and associated delay at all times. Must stop!

Radical Islamic Terrorism must be stopped by whatever means necessary! The courts must give us back our protective rights. Have to be tough!

Heading to Camp David for major meeting on National Security, the Border and the Military (which we are rapidly building to strongest ever).

[Syt]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/08/18/statement-donald-j-trump-elevation-cyber-command

Statement by President Donald J. Trump on the Elevation of Cyber Command

I have directed that United States Cyber Command be elevated to the status of a Unified Combatant Command focused on cyberspace operations. 

This new Unified Combatant Command will strengthen our cyberspace operations and create more opportunities to improve our Nation's defense.  The elevation of United States Cyber Command demonstrates our increased resolve against cyberspace threats and will help reassure our allies and partners and deter our adversaries.   

United States Cyber Command's elevation will also help streamline command and control of time-sensitive cyberspace operations by consolidating them under a single commander with authorities commensurate with the importance of such operations.  Elevation will also ensure that critical cyberspace operations are adequately funded. 

In connection with this elevation, the Secretary of Defense is examining the possibility of separating United States Cyber Command from the National Security Agency.  He will announce recommendations on this matter at a later date. 

Through United States Cyber Command, we will tackle our cyberspace challenges in coordination with like-minded allies and partners as we strive to respond rapidly to evolving cyberspace security threats and opportunities globally.

[viper37]

Again, the counter protest was not intended to be violent. This, for some reason, seems really hard to understand.

Come on.  You can't be that naive.

I am skeptical that "the spotlight" does all the good it claims to do.

It worked before.

So, the real question that was in everybody's mind was: are we going to be intimidated by that?

And to you and Jacob, not being intimidated means confronting them, knowing there will be violence?

Why not organize another protest with more people elsewhere?  Why not let the police contain them, if any illegal acts are committed?

These guys, they thrive on violence.  The more violent your approach is, the better they feel.  You're an historian, so tell me, what did the antifa achieved in the 1920s Italy and 1930s Germany?

Law and Order types will side with Nazis? Racists will keep on being racist?

I suggest blocking their doors and setting their house on fire.  :roll:

I tend not to use this to tar entire groups with a message of violence and destruction

Donald Trump just got critized for saying there were good people with the right wing protestors.
He was right.  I'm sure there were really nice guys there.  It might even be that some of these people, who arrived with guns, shields and masked intended for a peaceful protest and were just trying to protect themselves from the radical left...

I do not believe that crap.  The right wingers there, they got there expecting violence.  And the antifa were ready for it.  Does blood always have to spill to make one realize their folly?

, especially when groups profess a message that is, in its essence, non-violent - but your mileage evidently varies, because you tend to ascribe the most radical ideas to all whom you identify with your political enemies in order to discredit them all.

Yes, the left is non violent.  We all know that.  Peace and love for all.  The vidoes I posted proves that.

Then again, I also do not think that opposing free trade makes you the moral equivalent of a Nazi.

That's the difference between you and me.  If a KKK band was tearing you apart, I'd intervene.  If an antifa group was tearing me apart, you'd look away pretending you have seen nothing.

The difference with Nazis and klansmen is that they *actually* profess violence; they show up with guns, which is different from showing with masks to preserve against tear gas;

We've been through that already.  You can legally carry a gun/rifle in Virginia.  They got there with everything they could get away with.

If leftist protesters are so peaceful, why are there cops injured at each of your side's "peaceful" rally?
For the "peaceful" student protests of 2012 in Victoriaville, 6 cops were seriously injured.  25 in Montreal.
http://tinyurl.com/cm3k7de
Can you try again to convince me these guys are peaceful?

The videos I posted, they're the action of peaceful protestors?

that guy got into a car, and drove into a crowd, which is different than punching someone in the face in the heat of the moment.

That's a terrorist action by a deranged man.

A run-of-the-mill Confedetard protest at Lee's statue would have me assume that they are racist fucks,

And I would assume just as much.  Despite their claims of being peaceful protestors seeking to preserve history.

who need to be politically[/u] opposed

And again, I agree with you.  Emphasis on the bolded, underlined word.  Wishing for the death of a right wing extremist and offering a bounty like sbr wants to does not solve the problem.  Seeking trouble by meeting with violent protesters does nothing but put a lot of people at risk.

An organization marching under a Nazi flag, benefiting from the complacency of the Cheeto Benito(c)CdM) is a different matter altogether.

I agree the US President is not helping, but there are other political vehicles.  Afaik, the Virginia governor wasn't exactly keen on the organizaton marching under a Nazi flag.
But all that could have been achieved with one less victim.

And right now, you guys are proposing to make more victims.

As I am sure you know, the context there was drug trade in bars (something which hasn't gone away, and isn't limited to antifa vs skinheads), and conflict within countercultures. I am not sure it is quite applicable.

The antifas were backed by the Rock Machines and the Skinheads were backed by the Hell's Angels.

Yes, it was part of the larger biker wars, but they were nonetheless protests, and we saw, at the time, what appeared to be a rise in extreme right-wing activism and violent counter protests achieved nothing.  Eventually, police intervention solved the problem, here and in the West (read on Heritage Front)

If Isis militants start demonstrating with their black flag, marching down the streets with guns, and, say, showing up to intimidate women at abortion clinics, I will have the exact same stance. Deradicalization is, of course, the objective, but you do not do that on the streets.

ISIS militants are throwing vehicles at people and stabbing people in Europe.  Aren't we a little past the stage of organizing protests?  Isn't this the catastrophical scenario you and Jacob envision for America and Canada?  What the fuck are you waiting to act on?  Call for the murder of all islamists like the left is calling for the blood of nazis?  Go softer like Alexandre Taillefer* and call on anyone who questions immigration to be censored?  Post a picture of any random arab in the street and associate him with ISIS, worry about the rest later?

If violent action is the way to act right now agains those marching with a nazi flag, what do you think is a proper reaction to those who support a group murdering people?

I believe in freedom of speech.  For you, for Jacob, for me, for CdM, for Sbr to call for my death, for Raz to insult me, for these nazis types to protest against Confederate statue removals, even for radical islamists to protest secular laws, so long as it is done peacefully.  If they,re not peaceful, it's for the cops to act on it, not ordinary citizens.


*Taillefer's quote

Si vous utilisez les médias pour promouvoir des valeurs qui en sont proches et ne dénoncez pas La Meute, Trump, les suprémacistes blancs et que vous vous réfugiez derrière la "liberté d'expression" ou "l'attaque légitime de la dangereuse gauche", vous faites partie des problèmes et nous devrions, comme société, vous retirez des ondes hertziennes ou imprimées. Vous êtes un vecteur de transmission de la haine et on se doit de vous dénoncer.

[Savonarola]

If/When Pence becomes president after Trump's crash and burn does this count as his first term? or can he get elected two more times?

Depends when Trump resigns/is removed:

Twenty Second Amendment:

Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Section 2. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several states within seven years from the date of its submission to the states by the Congress.