Restaurants in Malaysia told to rename hot dogs or be banned

Started by Martinus, October 19, 2016, 03:29:38 AM

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Malthus

Quote from: derspiess on October 19, 2016, 12:55:28 PM
It's far from an outrage, but the backlash against the OP is puzzling.  Not being able to call a hot dog a hot dog is just silly, regardless of where you are.

This sort of silliness is common in food labeling regulation, though. Even quite aside from the whole "this is only about Halal certification" thing.

There are lots of cases in which the manufacturer or retailer can't call something what they want, even though the term is widely used by the public. Not to mention, in Malaysia, unlike here, the term "hot dog" may well not be widely used by the public.
 
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

Berkut

Quote from: derspiess on October 19, 2016, 12:55:28 PM
It's far from an outrage, but the backlash against the OP is puzzling.  Not being able to call a hot dog a hot dog is just silly, regardless of where you are.

Not as silly as pretending like someone is "not able to call a hot dog a hot dog" when in fact they are free, in this case, to call it anything they like.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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derspiess

Yeah but being halal there is a lot more important that being halal here.  I imagine in some towns not being halal would cut out a lot of your business.  A presumably all-beef hot dog made from cows that were slaughtered while some dude murmured Allah's name can't be halal just because some silly government agency doesn't like the name?  Yeah, that's silly.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Berkut

Quote from: derspiess on October 19, 2016, 01:22:17 PM
Yeah but being halal there is a lot more important that being halal here.  I imagine in some towns not being halal would cut out a lot of your business.  A presumably all-beef hot dog made from cows that were slaughtered while some dude murmured Allah's name can't be halal just because some silly government agency doesn't like the name?  Yeah, that's silly.

That depends on what the rules are around what defines halal, of course.

Now, I think it is silly that the government is involved in defining religious standards to begin with, but that is a different question. Given that they are, I don't think it is any more silly than rules that say what you can and cannot call your bubbly wine, or whether or not some cheese qualifies as being called "cheddar" or not.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Jacob

Quote from: derspiess on October 19, 2016, 01:22:17 PM
Yeah but being halal there is a lot more important that being halal here.  I imagine in some towns not being halal would cut out a lot of your business.  A presumably all-beef hot dog made from cows that were slaughtered while some dude murmured Allah's name can't be halal just because some silly government agency doesn't like the name?  Yeah, that's silly.

Perhaps the requirements for halal precludes mislabelling a product - such as calling something "dog" when it doesn't contain any dog.

Malthus

Quote from: derspiess on October 19, 2016, 01:22:17 PM
Yeah but being halal there is a lot more important that being halal here.  I imagine in some towns not being halal would cut out a lot of your business.  A presumably all-beef hot dog made from cows that were slaughtered while some dude murmured Allah's name can't be halal just because some silly government agency doesn't like the name?  Yeah, that's silly.

The concern is that it is potentially confusing to consumers (not everyone on Earth in American or European, and so not everyone on Earth knows what a "Hot Dog" is, or that it is not, in fact, made of dog meat).

The halal certification issue aside, this is really no different from rules requiring companies to avoid calling products "milk" when they are not dairy (as in "Soy Milk" or "Almond Milk").
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Malthus

Quote from: garbon on October 19, 2016, 01:37:16 PM
Help! I was tricked into thinking I was eating dog!

Point is that it makes a certain amount of sense to have food labeling clearly state what is in the food, and not something that is not. Not seeing any huge problem with that.

It only appears "silly" here because we are very familiar with that quintessentially North American product, the hot dog, and know more or less what is in it - a fine variety of snouts and anuses, but not those of actual dogs. 
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

Grey Fox

Wow, this thread is like everyone as suddenly been Tyrified & is now totally amazed that people are not the same everywhere.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Malthus on October 19, 2016, 01:34:34 PM
The halal certification issue aside, this is really no different from rules requiring companies to avoid calling products "milk" when they are not dairy (as in "Soy Milk" or "Almond Milk").

It's the exact opposite.  The no milk rule is a prohibition of a false positive association.  The hot dog rule is a prohibition of a false negative association.

Jacob

Quote from: Grey Fox on October 19, 2016, 01:53:22 PM
Wow, this thread is like everyone as suddenly been Tyrified & is now totally amazed that people are not the same everywhere.

:lol:

To be fair, people here mostly make fun of Tyr for being parochial about North American things but they're usually equally parochial about things outside the US.

The Brain

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garbon

Quote from: Jacob on October 19, 2016, 01:59:42 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 19, 2016, 01:53:22 PM
Wow, this thread is like everyone as suddenly been Tyrified & is now totally amazed that people are not the same everywhere.

:lol:

To be fair, people here mostly make fun of Tyr for being parochial about North American things but they're usually equally parochial about things outside the US.

Just a matter of time till Americanization takes over.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Jacob


Baron von Schtinkenbutt

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 19, 2016, 01:59:17 PM
It's the exact opposite.  The no milk rule is a prohibition of a false positive association.  The hot dog rule is a prohibition of a false negative association.

It's about people thinking a product is something that it is not.  The sentiment people hold towards the confusor is irrelevant.

What's extra ridiculous about this case is that the name "hot dog" is itself a made-up name that resulted from anti-German sentiments in the US during WWI.  It's essentially an instance of "freedom fries" that actually stuck.