Liep, mongers, PDH and other bicycle lovers: to me!

[Pedrito]

I'm toying with the idea of starting a business in the bicycle touring market, and I want to gather info, opinions and first-hand accounts about a wide range of topics related to it.

Everyone who has at least a passing knowledge and passion for bycicle touring, broadly defined as "hop on a bike and start grinding kilometers", for one day only or two months in a row, is welcome to give a contribution to the thread.

Let's start with some simple questions:
- what online resources do you use for planning your routes, either when you have to go get the bread, or when you're planning a multi-day trip across Europe? Forums, sites, map repositories?
- if you own a smartphone, which apps are the must-have before and during the trip?
- for longer trips, do you still use physical cycle route books?

L.

[mongers]

Pedrito, interesting topic.

I don't think I have much useful advice*, though I'dargue foremost you should think about who your target customers might be?

Towards the top end, lucky guided tours of France/Italy regions, upwards of $15,000 per head. They must be making good money out of these or they wouldn't be offered?

What about something more 'real'/ down-market?



* because the way I go about doing bike stuff is a bit idiosyncratic.

[Liep]

I actually also thought about this when visiting Iceland last week, with the introduction of better electric bikes this could become a very big market. And I guess weekly tours in Italy with over nights in vineyards or such and then a nice easy ride through hilly Tuscany the next day could be very lucrative and have a big audience if physical endurance is no longer an issue.

---

I used GPSies.com to plan routes, they have a sort of algorithm that chooses the smaller roads and specific cycle routes if available and it's free. I then downloaded that map unto a navigator, but honestly I think I'll go with a physical map the next time and draw the route based on the suggestion from gpsies because it'll give a much better overview if detours are necessary.

openstreetmap.com has an overlay that shows national and international cycle routes, a must see.
tomsbiketrip.com is a must read. So much information.

I didn't feel any app was essential and really only used Google Maps to find the nearest lunch place.

[lustindarkness]

The last time I spent hours on end on bike every day the internet was a new thing and there was no smart phones or gps. 



Anyway, my recommendation would be keep it simple and make it accessible to anyone.

[Zanza]

When I go cycling, I only do day tours or maybe weekends in Southern Germany. The website I use to plan is www.outdooractive.com, which has many, many tours available and allows you to plan your own. You can then download them as GPX to your phone, which is quite handy if you ever lose the way.

[Pedrito]

Thanks for the answers this far!

@mongers: I've found plenty of websites offering bicycle tours that range around 900-1500 euros, up to a three thousand €, but none as expensive as you say: can you please let me know which tour operator is offering such prices?

@liep: did you use an e-bike while in Iceland? If yes, what are the drawbacks (advantages are rather clear...) of last generation e-bikes? For what I know, the biggest problem still is the battery weight: if not properly distributed, it can unbalance the bike. On the other hand, while hiking in the Dolomites during this last summer I've noticed that rented e-bikes have become the vast majority of single-day rentals: the shops are charging up to 50 €/day for a last generation Bosch-powered mountain bike! While for a peon-powered MTB the rentals charge around 15-20 €/day.

Useful links, too, thanks

@everyone:
- when you plan for longish trips, I assume you take with you at least the minimal tools and repair kit for the bike: a puncture repair kit (or spare tube) and pump, some multitool, and in case of longer trips a chain repair kit and perhaps some other gizmos. How frequently did you happen to use the repair kits? When a more serious maintenance is needed, do you rely on whoever is doing the trip with you, or on local repair shops?
- when doing multi-day trips, do you ever long for a change of transportation, i.e. exchange one day of biking with a canoe or boat trip, or a horse ride?

L.

[mongers]

Thanks for the answers this far!

@mongers: I've found plenty of websites offering bicycle tours that range around 900-1500 euros, up to a three thousand €, but none as expensive as you say: can you please let me know which tour operator is offering such prices?
....
L.

Pedrito this was the one I was thinking about, loosely following in the footsteps of hannibal:

http://www.rideandseek.com/epic/hannibal

Barcelona to Rome
Length: 29 Days / 28 Nights
Distance: 2870 km | 1787 miles
Dates: September 3rd - October 1st
Price: €11,330

[Liep]

@liep: did you use an e-bike while in Iceland? If yes, what are the drawbacks (advantages are rather clear...) of last generation e-bikes? For what I know, the biggest problem still is the battery weight: if not properly distributed, it can unbalance the bike. On the other hand, while hiking in the Dolomites during this last summer I've noticed that rented e-bikes have become the vast majority of single-day rentals: the shops are charging up to 50 €/day for a last generation Bosch-powered mountain bike! While for a peon-powered MTB the rentals charge around 15-20 €/day.

No, but I've been told that the newer generation e-bikes are pretty solid so I guess it's only the distance (and price) that's a drawback and consequently the weight when the battery dies. Range is dependent on how much power you contribute yourself and the standard factors of hills and head wind. But I haven't really got any experience with e-bikes, only know what I've been told by my bike nerd colleagues.

@everyone:
- when you plan for longish trips, I assume you take with you at least the minimal tools and repair kit for the bike: a puncture repair kit (or spare tube) and pump, some multitool, and in case of longer trips a chain repair kit and perhaps some other gizmos. How frequently did you happen to use the repair kits? When a more serious maintenance is needed, do you rely on whoever is doing the trip with you, or on local repair shops?
- when doing multi-day trips, do you ever long for a change of transportation, i.e. exchange one day of biking with a canoe or boat trip, or a horse ride?

L.

I got a multitool with the basics and field chain/spoke repair, some spare tubes and a pump. I guess I could repair everything myself with the right tools, but at least in Europe bike shops are so frequent and repairs of that magnitude so rare that it doesn't make sense to bring any heavy tools. On my recent 2500km trip I had no repairs not even a flat tyre (thanks Schwalbe!).

I ride no more than 4-5 days before I get too tired so I did 4 days on, 3-4 days off bike sightseeing/relaxing. But I'm a lazy git, from those I met the average schedule was 5 days on 2 days off. Distances varied between 70 and 160 km per day. I don't know if I'd want to do any physical activity on my off days, cycling with luggage sans battery back up can be pretty damn exhausting.

[Liep]

Barcelona to Rome
Length: 29 Days / 28 Nights
Distance: 2870 km | 1787 miles
Dates: September 3rd - October 1st
Price: €11,330

Looks like a nice trip. The group would be cycling on race bikes and all gear transported on accompanying van with all sleeping arrangement already taken care of at arrival and dinner planned at local restaurants, that is what I would expect of top range guided bike tours. This is the sort of trip I'd have to take if I wanted to ride with my friends as they're not willing to live in tents and stay alive on oatmeal.

But then I did my trip in about 45 days spending €1000. But the prices of the bikes I see when I ride north of Copenhagen quite often exceed €5,000 so I don't think €11,330 is unreasonable at all for that demographic.

Also, the biggest guided tour in Denmark is the annual Rynkeby-Paris race where more than 1000 people (and many more if they could accommodate them, applications for 2017 are already closed) pay €3000 or more for a 7 day race. It's for charity, but I think the actual costs are around the 3k mark.

[mongers]

Barcelona to Rome
Length: 29 Days / 28 Nights
Distance: 2870 km | 1787 miles
Dates: September 3rd - October 1st
Price: €11,330

Looks like a nice trip. The group would be cycling on race bikes and all gear transported on accompanying van with all sleeping arrangement already taken care of at arrival and dinner planned at local restaurants, that is what I would expect of top range guided bike tours. This is the sort of trip I'd have to take if I wanted to ride with my friends as they're not willing to live in tents and stay alive on oatmeal.

But then I did my trip in about 45 days spending €1000. But the prices of the bikes I see when I ride north of Copenhagen quite often exceed €5,000 so I don't think €11,330 is unreasonable at all for that demographic.

Also, the biggest guided tour in Denmark is the annual Rynkeby-Paris race where more than 1000 people (and many more if they could accommodate them, applications for 2017 are already closed) pay €3000 or more for a 7 day race. It's for charity, but I think the actual costs are around the 3k mark.

Liep, thanks for that, interesting info. You had a real epic trip there.