Acts of Terrorism megathread

[Tonitrus]

Can't we all just come together and be mad at Neil deGrasse Tyson?

What is wrong with Neil deGrasse Tyson?

He put out a tweet to the effect of "the death toll in these shootings is small compared to medical errors, traffic accidents, etc, that happen every day, but shootings get all the news coverage".  Factual, but not the kind of thing a sensible person goes around pointing out after such an event.

[Syt]

Can't we all just come together and be mad at Neil deGrasse Tyson?

What is wrong with Neil deGrasse Tyson?

He put out a tweet to the effect of "the death toll in these shootings is small compared to medical errors, traffic accidents, etc, that happen every day, but shootings get all the news coverage".  Factual, but not the kind of thing a sensible person goes around pointing out after such an event.

The best response was someone posting this image from Watchmen:

[Valmy]

Can't we all just come together and be mad at Neil deGrasse Tyson?

What is wrong with Neil deGrasse Tyson?

He put out a tweet to the effect of "the death toll in these shootings is small compared to medical errors, traffic accidents, etc, that happen every day, but shootings get all the news coverage".  Factual, but not the kind of thing a sensible person goes around pointing out after such an event.

See even a genius is not smart enough to use Twitter.

[DGuller]

I admire his courage.  It's a lot easier to use Twitter to join the mob to lynch critical thinking, rather than to invite their wrath by making reasoned arguments.  Pointing this out now and not later is appropriate for the same reason that talking about gun control is appropriate now and not later.

[crazy canuck]

I admire his courage.  It's a lot easier to use Twitter to join the mob to lynch critical thinking, rather than to invite their wrath by making reasoned arguments.  Pointing this out now and not later is appropriate for the same reason that talking about gun control is appropriate now and not later.

Except the other things are accidents.  It is not a very good comparison and especially not now. 

[Berkut]

Yeah, I freaking love him, but that is rather lazy thinking. Unless you think that we can only consider one thing at a time, and that there is a lack of attention or resources given to those other items, I don't understand what point he is trying to make.

[Josquius]

Yeah, pretty weird thing to say.

[DGuller]

Yeah, I freaking love him, but that is rather lazy thinking. Unless you think that we can only consider one thing at a time, and that there is a lack of attention or resources given to those other items, I don't understand what point he is trying to make.

The media can indeed talk about a few things at a time at most, and when they do, they often instill a great deal of anxiety in public (because stuff that sells is also stuff that causes anxiety).  If you're going to instill anxiety, you may as well do it about things that are actually relatively statistically likely to hurt you, so that some good may come out of it.  Humans can also only be truly motivated to change a few things at a time, so it is indeed a zero sum game to get useful attention out of the public to apply political pressure to change things.

[DGuller]

I admire his courage.  It's a lot easier to use Twitter to join the mob to lynch critical thinking, rather than to invite their wrath by making reasoned arguments.  Pointing this out now and not later is appropriate for the same reason that talking about gun control is appropriate now and not later.

Except the other things are accidents.  It is not a very good comparison and especially not now.

All of these things are negligence combined with bad luck.  Medical accidents are often doctor carelessness that due to other factors sometimes turns fatal, traffic accidents are driver or engineering negligence that combined with bad luck turn fatal.  Mass shootings are gun policy negligence that combined with bad luck (individual insanity) turn fatal.

In all of these cases, you have failures of policy that increase your exposure to things that happen just due to human nature.  However, as frustrating as total retardation on the right regarding guns is, that negligence is far less likely to make you lose a family member to a mass shooting than to a medical error. 

Even when it comes to guns, the true negligence with American gun policy is to make mental illnesses more fatal, as gun suicides are far more effective than other popular means.  The extra avoidable suicides probably take as many lives as traffic accidents (and no, suicides are not a choice most of the time, they're a fatal complication of an illness).

[crazy canuck]

I admire his courage.  It's a lot easier to use Twitter to join the mob to lynch critical thinking, rather than to invite their wrath by making reasoned arguments.  Pointing this out now and not later is appropriate for the same reason that talking about gun control is appropriate now and not later.

Except the other things are accidents.  It is not a very good comparison and especially not now.

All of these things are negligence combined with bad luck.  Medical accidents are often doctor carelessness that due to other factors sometimes turns fatal, traffic accidents are driver or engineering negligence that combined with bad luck turn fatal.  Mass shootings are gun policy negligence that combined with bad luck (individual insanity) turn fatal.

In all of these cases, you have failures of policy that increase your exposure to things that happen just due to human nature.  However, as frustrating as total retardation on the right regarding guns is, that negligence is far less likely to make you lose a family member to a mass shooting than to a medical error. 

Even when it comes to guns, the true negligence with American gun policy is to make mental illnesses more fatal, as gun suicides are far more effective than other popular means.  The extra avoidable suicides probably take as many lives as traffic accidents (and no, suicides are not a choice most of the time, they're a fatal complication of an illness).

You are using the words negligence and accidents improperly.  Those denote unintended results.  Mass shooters intend the results of their actions.

[Eddie Teach]

He's talking about the system, not individuals.

[DGuller]

He's talking about the system, not individuals.

Exactly.  Out of many millions of people, there would always be some who through combination of nature and nurture will be dangerous.  The actions of someone with wires crossed are not an accident, but the crossing of wires itself is.  One of the purposes of society is to prevent or mitigate the damage from errors and accidents that happen.

[crazy canuck]

He's talking about the system, not individuals.

Exactly.  Out of many millions of people, there would always be some who through combination of nature and nurture will be dangerous.  The actions of someone with wires crossed are not an accident, but the crossing of wires itself is.  One of the purposes of society is to prevent or mitigate the damage from errors and accidents that happen.

There is no way to equate the intent of a gunman firing into a crowd with a surgical error.  Surgical errors are actual accidents.  Shooting into a crowd is an intentional act.  At some level of abstraction you can probably create some kind of statistical model that shows the risks are greater if one goes in for surgery.  But that fundamental difference is that when a surgeon cuts into you with a scalpel he is not trying to kill you.  When shooter aims at you, he is.

[The Brain]

You tried, DG.

[grumbler]

You tried, DG.

And failed.  I'd say that it was a valiant try, except for the fact that it wasn't.

The reason that shootings get more press coverage than surgical errors isn't because the press is stupid.  It is because people can more easily see themselves the unexpected victims of a mass shooting than an unexpected botched surgery.  If the old Monte Python skit where the surgeon shows up at the homes of unsuspecting organ donors and rips out their kidneys came to pass, it would be covered intensely by the press.  This isn't remotely difficult to understand, even by geniuses.