Cap and Trade. Good, bad or ugly?

[alfred russel]

Nonsense.  Actually, disagreement about the impact of CO2 on the climate has only grown, which is why the EPA had to forbid its scientists from challenging the global warming hysteria.  There is no science that supports the global warming theory.

So...it is all a giant conspiracy?

It is a pseudoscience ... just like eugenics was.  There is absolutely no evidence of either correlation or causation between CO2 emmissions and global warming.  Just a lot of people depending on this to be true for their economic and political livelihood, which is why all the "science" in the field has been focused on starting with the conclusion, looking for anything that can be used to support it while ignoring anything that doesn't.  then create models that will support your foregone conclusion and when they fail (as they all have), either excuse them, or design a new model that will prove your foregone conclusion.  And then repeat over and oer again.  None of the comports with the scientific method.  The problem is that we don't know nearly enough about how the climate works to even apply the scientific method effectively to determine anything at all about the changes in the climate (if any).  Indeed, even the global temperature data we have isn't very accurate.

Maybe a new study has been done, but the largest EPA study done during the tobacco debates was unable to conclusively show that second hand smoke caused cancer. The problem isn't that second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer, it is that in the real world outside of a lab there are too many variables to control.

There is good evidence that temperatures and CO2 levels have been generally increasing together in recent years, there is geological evidence that CO2 levels and global climate are related, and there is a strong scientific model in place.

I think sask is on to something with the big tobacco playbook analysis.

[Neil]

So basically you are implying these people are completely and irredeemably evil.  They made something up to cause tremendous problems and economic pain because it may slightly enhance their own career and make them a bit more money.  Oh and they know they are wrong but they conspire to advance the lie anyway.

I mean who does that?  Somebody so black hearted I have a hard time believing they exist.

How is that irredeemably evil? I don't have a problem who want to get rich on the backs of having us pollute less (because even if it doesn't stop the globe from warming, it can't be a bad thing to be creating less pollution).

I'm sure the people who lose their jobs and fortunes would disagree.

Besides, we're in an interglacial right now.  If we don't do something, the glaciers will come back.

[Caliga]

Besides, we're in an interglacial right now.  If we don't do something, the glaciers will come back.

I not only think that we are causing global warming, but I also think global warming is a good thing.

The ability to farm all across Canada and Siberia? Good thing.

Tropical weather in the American South?  Good thing.

Temperatures so hot the poors living in the equatorial regions are roasted alive?  Good thing.

[garbon]

Temperatures so hot the poors living in the equatorial regions are roasted alive?  Good thing.

You forgot flooding.

[garbon]

I'm sure the people who lose their jobs and fortunes would disagree.

I'm still not sure that said people would be irredeemably evil...unless their motivation behind the ruse was simply to cause people to lose their jobs and fortunes.

[Neil]

Tropical weather in the American South?  Good thing.

All those retards who think that it's alright to ignore vaccinations and 'listen to your body' dying of horrible tropical diseases?  Double-plus good.

[Neil]

Temperatures so hot the poors living in the equatorial regions are roasted alive?  Good thing.

You forgot flooding.

That's not so bad.

[Valmy]

I not only think that we are causing global warming, but I also think global warming is a good thing.

The ability to farm all across Canada and Siberia? Good thing.

Tropical weather in the American South?  Good thing.

Temperatures so hot the poors living in the equatorial regions are roasted alive?  Good thing.

I watched the 'Day After Tommorow'.  Global Warming is going to cause all places white people live to be covered with a gigantic ice sheet over night.  We will all be refugees in the 3rd world countries.

[Caliga]

All those retards who think that it's alright to ignore vaccinations and 'listen to your body' dying of horrible tropical diseases?  Double-plus good.

Plus, I've always wanted to catch sleeping sickness.  No matter what I can never get like more than 6-7 hours of sleep a night.

[Caliga]

I watched the 'Day After Tommorow'.  Global Warming is going to cause all places white people live to be covered with a gigantic ice sheet over night.  We will all be refugees in the 3rd world countries.

A film put out by a BUNCH OF LIBERALS, no doubt.

[garbon]

That's not so bad.

I didn't mean to suggest it was.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

so even if there are modest unilateral reductions in the US level of consumption that aren't offset by increases elsewhere

that's something you could technically offset by taxing the entire CO2 (there's other foul gasses too but lets just use this for ease) cycle throughout production.
Suddenly that stupid toy made in China or India wouldn't be so cheap anymore, something which would (theoretically) result in:
either the people not buying the imported goods anymore because they're too expensive, which might then lead to the return of some jobs to places closer by.
either the people continue to buy the now more expensive goods, knowing that they're paying added tax for their polluting ways.

Problem is that it's pretty damn nasty to calculate the amount of pollutants created along the entire process of any good.

[crazy canuck]

I don't understand the worries about fraudulent permits.  Just maintain a central clearing house.

Its the cost of such a clearing house that is the problem.  It would not be able to rely on market forces to self regulate.

[crazy canuck]

The ability to farm all across Canada and Siberia? Good thing.

Unlikely, the soils in the areas of Canada that are not currently under the plow are not very fertile and if temperatures keep increasing farming on current arable land will become less viable.

[Caliga]

Unlikely, the soils in the areas of Canada that are not currently under the plow are not very fertile and if temperatures keep increasing farming on current arable land will become less viable.

My crackpot, paper-thin theory which took me three seconds to dream up cannot possibly be wrong.